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Mistral-C vs DG-100



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 22nd 19, 12:42 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
BobW
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Posts: 504
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

On 8/21/2019 9:57 AM, Surge wrote:
On Friday, 26 July 2019 21:39:43 UTC+2, calin fagarasanu wrote:
-has all moving tail which I never flew and understand it is a safety
concern


An all flying elevator should really only be a safety concern if you're a
ham-fisted pilot. They're a great way to cure "stick shaker" pilots of
their bad habit.

If you're mentally prepared to use small elevator movements for the first
couple of flights and pick a nice day without gusty conditions you should
be fine. It took me about 30 minutes of the first flight to get used to the
Nimbus 2 all flying elevator.


"What Surge said," regarding my all-flying-elevator transition-experience.

Went from ~125 total hours in 1-26s to C-70 (50 hrs) and HP-14 (195 hrs) to a
15-meter Zuni w. single-piece horizontal stab. "Got over it" on my first tow,
mostly within the first vertical 3 feet. Little different than every other
single-seater transition, for me. Put 2k hours on the ship.

IMHO, pilots in general tend to magnify (beer and campfires help) ship
differences well beyond reality. Think V-tailed Bonanzas, ASW-20 "Jesus
flaps," etc.

Nothing beats sensible preparation.

YMMV.
Bob W.

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  #12  
Old August 26th 19, 02:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer[_2_]
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Posts: 37
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

On Tue, 20 Aug 2019 14:39:20 -0700 (PDT), Charlie Quebec
wrote:

Any belly hook DG needs full down trim for takeoff. Nose hook not so much.



Neither DG-300, nor DG-600, nor DG-800 need full down trim for an
aerotow. All of them belly hook.

I haven't flown DG-100 nor DG-200.

Cheers
Andreas


p.s.
We converted both of my club's DG-300s to nose hooks (due to German
legislation), so we could compare both hook positions on the same
gliders.

Absolutely NO trim change if the nose hook was used instead of the CG
hook.

  #13  
Old August 26th 19, 09:50 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike N.
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Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

I recently started flying a DG200.

I had not previously flown on a C.G. hook and had also no flown gliders for over 10 years when I got back into the hobby this past spring.


I joined Utah Soaring Association that luckily enough had several Twin Astir's with C.G. hooks. I took about 13 hours training to both knock my flight skills rust off and learn C.G. hook tows.

After getting my skills up to a safe level on the nose hook, I started training on the C.G. hook on the Astir and did not have much difficulty in that transition.

The more noticeable change was when I started flying the DG200. Per the manual elevator is to be trimmed full forward for take off.
My first take off, I did pitch up somewhat steeply and corrected appropriately with down elevator. I had been warned about the possibility of the pitch up of course so it was not too dramatic. But it did get my attention.

After a few more tows I was of course much more stable in the takeoff, to the point I am comfortable with the aircraft now.

I find at my weight and balance at roughly only 37 percent. If I bring the trim back about 15 to 20 percent from full forward trim the take off is pretty standard.
  #14  
Old August 26th 19, 11:04 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 242
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

I own a DG300
The POH clearly states full forward trim for take off with a CG hook, if not serious ballooning will occur. I can attest to this as I did a sloppy before take off check once which I will never do again...
  #15  
Old August 27th 19, 12:49 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Matt McBee
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Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

DG-101 driver here. Our glider has a CG hook and yes, absolutely trim should be set full forward for aerotow.


  #16  
Old August 27th 19, 03:11 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Andreas Maurer[_2_]
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Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 15:04:22 -0700 (PDT), 6PK
wrote:

I own a DG300
The POH clearly states full forward trim for take off with a CG hook, if not serious ballooning will occur. I can attest to this as I did a sloppy before take off check once which I will never do again...




Interesting stuff - both our DG-300s require only 50% forward trim for
both aerotow and winch launch, quite independent of pilot weight.

In the beginning we were using full forward trim, but pilots with
little experience in the 300 had some minor problems concerning the
sensitive elevator. Setting the trim a little bit further backwards
(to the setting stated for the nose hook) corrected the problem.


You are correct concerning the POH, but at least our 300's show no
difference between nose and CG hook.

Neutral trim is a different animal and results in a quite severe
nose-up tendency which needs a little attention to correct.



Cheers
Andreas


  #17  
Old August 27th 19, 12:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
krasw
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Posts: 668
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:50:24 PM UTC+3, Mike N. wrote:

After getting my skills up to a safe level on the nose hook, I started training on the C.G. hook on the Astir and did not have much difficulty in that transition.



Training for nose hook and then transitionin to C.G. hook? You make it sound like stepping up from Cessna 150 to B-29. Most of us wouldn't notice any difference whatsoever no matter where you put the hook. This has to be most overblown issue on r.a.s, ever.
  #18  
Old August 27th 19, 03:26 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 242
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

On Tuesday, August 27, 2019 at 4:14:14 AM UTC-7, krasw wrote:
On Monday, August 26, 2019 at 11:50:24 PM UTC+3, Mike N. wrote:

After getting my skills up to a safe level on the nose hook, I started training on the C.G. hook on the Astir and did not have much difficulty in that transition.



Training for nose hook and then transitionin to C.G. hook? You make it sound like stepping up from Cessna 150 to B-29. Most of us wouldn't notice any difference whatsoever no matter where you put the hook. This has to be most overblown issue on r.a.s, ever.


I beg to differ..with my DG300 the CG hook presents no problem. One of the clubs I did belong to years ago had a Janus A - hang on to your hat!
It all depends on the glider....
  #19  
Old August 27th 19, 04:02 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
6PK
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Posts: 242
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

And one other thing;for the most part taking off with a CG hook poses no problem unless if one gets out of wheck say 10/15 degrees off center line as in a crosswind -things could quickly escalate leading to a ground loop, much more so than gliders equipped with a nose hook.
Just my 5 C worth on that....
  #20  
Old August 27th 19, 06:13 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Mike N.
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Posts: 140
Default Mistral-C vs DG-100

"Training for nose hook and then transitionin to C.G. hook? You make it sound like stepping up from Cessna 150 to B-29. Most of us wouldn't notice any difference whatsoever no matter where you put the hook. This has to be most overblown issue on r.a.s, ever."
Who cares what you think, troll? There is a difference in nose to C.G. hook tows.
As most anyone (but you apparently) knows, pitch and yaw sensitivity on initial roll out and tow are higher.
Plenty of documented incidents of C.G. hook tows with very high pitch ups on take off leading to pulling the tow plan tail up and potentially planing the prop.
Go back under your bridge and S.T.F.Up if your arrogant A$$ does not like a post. Others may find it useful.
 




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