172 N to 172 S transition

My flying club is going to trade our 172 N (only airplane) in next spring
for a 2 -3 year old 172 S or SP. We'll be moving up from a very simple
VOR - Loran panel to GPS and possibly autopilot. I can't imagine that we
can just put a new plane like that, with fuel injection, boost pump, etc.
out on the line and let people start flying it without a checkout and an
hour or two of dual before turning people loose in it. With 25 members and
one CFI who tends to be busy in the spring, that could take a while.

I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or two
so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to fly.

What do people here think?

--
Roger Long

My flying club is going to trade our 172 N (only airplane) in next spring
for a 2 -3 year old 172 S or SP. We'll be moving up from a very simple
VOR - Loran panel to GPS and possibly autopilot. I can't imagine that we
can just put a new plane like that, with fuel injection, boost pump, etc.
out on the line and let people start flying it without a checkout and an
hour or two of dual before turning people loose in it. With 25 members and
one CFI who tends to be busy in the spring, that could take a while.

I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or two
so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to fly.

What do people here think?

--
Roger Long


From my own experience renting 172Ns for quite a while and then renting 172SPs,
it only took a single flight of less than 1 hr to go through the differences
between the planes and get checked out to rent. If you are wanting to use the
GPS for IFR approaches, or use the autopilot extensively, then this might take
a couple more flights to feel proficient.

In article , Roger Long
om wrote:

My flying club is going to trade our 172 N (only airplane) in next spring
for a 2 -3 year old 172 S or SP. We'll be moving up from a very simple
VOR - Loran panel to GPS and possibly autopilot. I can't imagine that we
can just put a new plane like that, with fuel injection, boost pump, etc.
out on the line and let people start flying it without a checkout and an
hour or two of dual before turning people loose in it. With 25 members and
one CFI who tends to be busy in the spring, that could take a while.
I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or two
so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to fly.
What do people here think?

The transition from carbureted to injected is the biggest hurdle for
those who don't already have the experience. I recommend using Deakin's
Avweb articles for mandatory reading.

As for the aircraft, the S and SP are a GREAT improvement in ergonomics.
Circuit breakers and switches are logically grouped, internal lighting
is vastly improved, seats and belts are integral single-point
shoulder-lap.
I cannot speak for the handling of the S model, but the SP controls are
"firmer", by that I mean that they do not have the free-play I have
experienced in the pre-1997 model 172's.
The injected engines are simpler to operate. Fuel pump is only used for
starting, not for landing. Landing checklist eliminates the carb heat,
too.
The SP gives better climb. Airspeeds are identical with the pre-1997
models, even for the SP, except for a 5 knot increase in cruise.
In the SP, power on stalls with flaps, 38 indicated; power on, no
flaps, 42 knots indicated.
It is a nice airplane. Depending on the avionics package, there may be
a bit of time required to learn how things work. If it has a King
package, the user's manuals are downloadable from the King website. I
printed them out on 5x8 index cards and punched them to fit in a
top-ring binder for easy reference. The KAP140 autopilot comes in one-
or two-axis models for this aircraft. It requires some study to use
properly.
The KN-94 GPS is powerful, but will not allow you to select instrument
approaches from the database unless it has a current database download.
Also, if the internal battery is dead, you cannot store routes.

"Roger Long" om wrote

I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or
two
so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to
fly.

What do people here think?

--
Roger Long

Option #3: Keep both planes. With 25 in the group, it would seem like you
could afford to keep them both pretty busy. You would still have one to
fly, when one is down for repairs/ annuals.

Just a thought.
--
Jim in NC

Every flying vendor I've ever been involved with or rented from
considered a checkout in a fixed gear 172 to apply to their entire fixed
gear 172 fleet.

I think a mention in the newsletter might be more than adequate to
stress the differences... later 172's having more fuel sumps, starting
techniques for fuel injected engines, any differences in speeds or
loads, and a reminder to check to POH.

Just my 2 cents
Dave

Roger Long wrote:

My flying club is going to trade our 172 N (only airplane) in next spring
for a 2 -3 year old 172 S or SP. We'll be moving up from a very simple
VOR - Loran panel to GPS and possibly autopilot. I can't imagine that we
can just put a new plane like that, with fuel injection, boost pump, etc.
out on the line and let people start flying it without a checkout and an
hour or two of dual before turning people loose in it. With 25 members and
one CFI who tends to be busy in the spring, that could take a while.

I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or two
so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to fly.

What do people here think?

--
Roger Long

In article , Morgans
wrote:

"Roger Long" om wrote
I'm thinking that we should plan on operating both planes for a month or
two so that people can keep flying until they get checked out. It will be
Spring, the weather will be improving and everyone is going to want to
fly.

Option #3: Keep both planes. With 25 in the group, it would seem like you
could afford to keep them both pretty busy. You would still have one to
fly, when one is down for repairs/ annuals.

In the club I am in rental rate was a factor. The aircraft was a
leaseback and the owner of the SP wanted $96/hr. With the three N
models renting for $72/hr, the SP didn't fly much. The owner pulled the
aircraft from the club after six months.

later 172's having more fuel sumps, starting
techniques for fuel injected engines,

More fuel sumps, indeed.

There are a total of 13. Yep, 13! (5 each wing, 3 under the fuselage) One must
grovel on the ground just like a low wing airplane... :-(

And starting the fuel-injected engine cold vs. hot may need a demonstration.

In article et, Dave
S wrote:

Every flying vendor I've ever been involved with or rented from
considered a checkout in a fixed gear 172 to apply to their entire fixed
gear 172 fleet.

I would argue for a separate checkout on the S or SP model based on the
pilot's experience with fuel injection and familiarity with the
avionics. If the pilot has previous experience with injected engines, a
one hour checkout would suffice. If the pilot plans to fly IFR with a
digital avionics stack, the checkout should include approaches using
the equipment. Pilot preparation time with the avionics manuals prior
to the checkout can aid in understanding and using the "switchology".

later 172's having more fuel sumps, starting techniques
for fuel injected engines,

Go point, I had forgotten to mention the 13 sumps on the new 172's.

I managed a 172N and H model to an S with about a 1 hour checkout. It was
from a different flying club and I did have some questions to answer on
their checkout form (took a couple of hours digging through the POH).

The flying part was pretty easy. Had to get used to a newer avionics setup
but that was fairly straightforward.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

"CVBreard" wrote in message
...
later 172's having more fuel sumps, starting
techniques for fuel injected engines,

More fuel sumps, indeed.

There are a total of 13. Yep, 13! (5 each wing, 3 under the fuselage) One
must
grovel on the ground just like a low wing airplane... :-(

I hear Cessna's next generation 172 will be composed entirely of fuel sumps!
:-)

Eric