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#61
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Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows: -PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do not. -You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive. -You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really is. -You're an idiot. Take care! |
#62
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"M Power" wrote in message om... Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows: -PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do not. -You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive. -You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really is. -You're an idiot. Those all appear to be opinions to me, not facts. As far as you and every military person you've spoken to knowing that PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS, how is it that you can know that? To my knowledge no full account of the action she was involved in has been released. |
#63
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"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message . ..
"Brian" wrote: "M Power" wrote in message . com... It's unfortunate that this happens, but it does. PFC Lynch is yet another example of crappy politics at work. Regardless of your *opinions* on this matter, the *fact* is that PFC Lynch was awarded a medal she did not deserve. Which was my original point. I'm not trying to excoriate Lynch, it's just depressing to see medals like Bronze Stars handed out for soldiers just doing their jobs. I felt the same way about the 3 dolts who got captured during the Kosovo conflict. Lynch certainly did not ask for the attention or the medal. In fact, I'm sure she'd have rather just been sent back to the US quietly. The Army is too busy touting her as some hero and basically exploiting her for PR reasons. This is quite true. No, it is not, Gord. You are buying into the argument of a guy who has classified the ambush as a "traffic accident", tried to blame Lynch for her own predicament, and failed to acknowledge that Lynch has not been the only 507th Maint Co troop who received the BS (a Sgt. Campbell got one, along with a Sgt Rose, who also garnered the "V"; by my not necessarily complete count, at least two other soldiers from the 507th who were captured received BS's and one, a Pvt Miller, received the Silver Star--not bad for a "traffic accident"). Mr Power has the concept of the Bronze Star all screwed up--but the fact is that without the "V", as in this case, it is an award for "meritorious *service*" (hence the verbage in the US Army description of the award criteria, "Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or meritorious service"), has been, and is, given to folks who've never seen a shot fired in anger and served in staff and support roles far behind the lines. Nor is this a new twist to the award--the record holder, a MG named Pendleton, received *nine* BS's during his career, and only *one* of those had a "V" device attached. From the 8 June 2000 Stars and Stripes: "A recent review by the Stars and Stripes of the way the Bronze Star was awarded to U.S. personnel involved in the airstrikes on Yugoslavia found that the Air Force awarded 185 of the medals, the vast majority going to officers and top commanders. Only 25 enlisted Air Force troops got the nod. Of all the medals awarded, only one in 10 actually was in the combat zone. In the Navy, most of the 69 Bronze Stars awarded went to officers out in the fleet where Yugoslavia's navy made the Adriatic and Ionian seas part of the combat zone; although at least four were awarded to staff officers in Naples, Italy, for work far from harm's way. The Army, which had 5,000 troops positioned in Albania, also part of the combat zone, awarded no Bronze Stars." And you think Lynch demonstrated less exemplary service than *they* did? How about the other soldiers who received awards of the BS in the 507th--are you going to yank their ribbons away as well? On what grounds? It's also sad that the average person will be more impressed with her getting the medal and all the obvious PR bull**** than to be impressed with the Army if it had followed the proper procedures WRT medals and given her only those she had earned then scooting her home quietly. This is what SHOULD have impressed the most people. Why all of this animosity for a *service* award that is routinely given to staff pogues, including non-officers (though not quite as routinely), and has also been awarded to many of her fellow unit members without engendering all of this hoopla? The problem I have seen in these threads is that most folks (surprisingly for a military related newsgroup) can't seem to grasp just how commonplace the BS as a service award really is, and that her award in no way implies "heroism" on her part. Perhaps it's really true when they say "Bull**** baffles Brains". Only so far as the bullship baffling those brains that can't seem to grasp what the BS w/o V device really is. Or "We get the kind of government that we deserve". Gee. Huh? Brooks |
#64
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I'm proud that you wore the uniform, sweetheart, and I'm glad I never had to go through what you did. all the best -- Dan Ford email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9 Oustanding post. The wannabees sure are getting tiresome. Arthur Kramer Whaaatever...just seems that you guys are looking at short term gain at the expense of long term. If you want to degrade the 'value' of your medals then why should I care?...fill yer boots... -- -Gord. I agree with all three of you. Those who were never there will never understand that a combat atta boy medal for service without valour is needed. Gord is also correct in that we do hand out way too many decorations on the whole. I won't address specific other than to say look at the achievment and commendation medals as they are shovelled out now versus 20 years ago. There is one ribbon issued that defies logic. Whether you go through basic, OSC, OTS, ROTC, the li'l 2 week orientation for medical/legal officers etc you get a cute li'l bitty ribbon that says you are authorized to wear the uniform. I find it mildy amusing that a U.S.A.F. serviceman,non flying, enlisted or officer, is likely to have more confetti on his chest after 4 years man who served in the infantry in combat during WW2 in the U.S. Army. On another subject if the U.S. Army had been at Rorke's Drift instead of the Brits the commander would have got the MOH, the officers and a few enlisted would have got the silver star and some of the rest would have got the bronze star. IIRC there were 11 VCs awarded. Most of those went to the enlisteds. Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired |
#65
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"B2431" wrote in message ... I find it mildy amusing that a U.S.A.F. serviceman,non flying, enlisted or officer, is likely to have more confetti on his chest after 4 years man who served in the infantry in combat during WW2 in the U.S. Army. The only way to really figure crap out any more is to look at the ribbons as a whole. I've seen quite a few Navy types with lot's of Navy Commendation Medals, etc. and no sea service ribbon. With the Army it's a little more difficult but look for campaign ribbons (ie. NATO medal (Bosnia), SW Asia, Armed Forces Expeditionary). It won't let you know if they've done combat, but at least you know they've had to endure some amount of hardship. |
#66
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On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote: I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it. Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think. Mary -- Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer "A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all." Anonymous US fighter pilot |
#67
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In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote: On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw" wrote: I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it. Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think. You know - Jessica Fletcher. The greatest serial killer in history. Not only did she kill someone once a week, she kept convincing people that somebody else did it. -- Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations. Slam on brakes accordingly. |
#68
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#70
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"Mary Shafer" wrote in message ... On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw" wrote: I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it. Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think. Actually I was thinking of lynch mob, which seems to be the mentality of some of the more extreme posters here. Keith |
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