PFC Lynch gets a Bronze Star?

Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

-You're an idiot.

Take care!

"M Power" wrote in message
om...

Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

-You're an idiot.


Those all appear to be opinions to me, not facts.

As far as you and every military person you've spoken to knowing that PFC
Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS, how is it that you can know that? To my
knowledge no full account of the action she was involved in has been
released.

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message . ..
"Brian" wrote:


"M Power" wrote in message
. com...
It's unfortunate that this
happens, but it does. PFC Lynch is yet another example of crappy
politics at work. Regardless of your *opinions* on this matter, the
*fact* is that PFC Lynch was awarded a medal she did not deserve.

Which was my original point. I'm not trying to excoriate Lynch, it's just
depressing to see medals like Bronze Stars handed out for soldiers just
doing their jobs. I felt the same way about the 3 dolts who got captured
during the Kosovo conflict. Lynch certainly did not ask for the attention or
the medal. In fact, I'm sure she'd have rather just been sent back to the US
quietly. The Army is too busy touting her as some hero and basically
exploiting her for PR reasons.


This is quite true.

No, it is not, Gord. You are buying into the argument of a guy who has
classified the ambush as a "traffic accident", tried to blame Lynch
for her own predicament, and failed to acknowledge that Lynch has not
been the only 507th Maint Co troop who received the BS (a Sgt.
Campbell got one, along with a Sgt Rose, who also garnered the "V"; by
my not necessarily complete count, at least two other soldiers from
the 507th who were captured received BS's and one, a Pvt Miller,
received the Silver Star--not bad for a "traffic accident"). Mr Power
has the concept of the Bronze Star all screwed up--but the fact is
that without the "V", as in this case, it is an award for "meritorious
*service*" (hence the verbage in the US Army description of the award
criteria, "Awards may be made to recognize single acts of merit or
meritorious service"), has been, and is, given to folks who've never
seen a shot fired in anger and served in staff and support roles far
behind the lines. Nor is this a new twist to the award--the record
holder, a MG named Pendleton, received *nine* BS's during his career,
and only *one* of those had a "V" device attached.

From the 8 June 2000 Stars and Stripes:

"A recent review by the Stars and Stripes of the way the Bronze Star
was awarded to U.S. personnel involved in the airstrikes on Yugoslavia
found that the Air Force awarded 185 of the medals, the vast majority
going to officers and top commanders. Only 25 enlisted Air Force
troops got the nod. Of all the medals awarded, only one in 10 actually
was in the combat zone. In the Navy, most of the 69 Bronze Stars
awarded went to officers out in the fleet where Yugoslavia's navy made
the Adriatic and Ionian seas part of the combat zone; although at
least four were awarded to staff officers in Naples, Italy, for work
far from harm's way. The Army, which had 5,000 troops positioned in
Albania, also part of the combat zone, awarded no Bronze Stars."

And you think Lynch demonstrated less exemplary service than *they*
did? How about the other soldiers who received awards of the BS in the
507th--are you going to yank their ribbons away as well? On what
grounds?


It's also sad that the average person will be
more impressed with her getting the medal and all the obvious PR
bull**** than to be impressed with the Army if it had followed
the proper procedures WRT medals and given her only those she had
earned then scooting her home quietly. This is what SHOULD have
impressed the most people.

Why all of this animosity for a *service* award that is routinely
given to staff pogues, including non-officers (though not quite as
routinely), and has also been awarded to many of her fellow unit
members without engendering all of this hoopla? The problem I have
seen in these threads is that most folks (surprisingly for a military
related newsgroup) can't seem to grasp just how commonplace the BS as
a service award really is, and that her award in no way implies
"heroism" on her part.


Perhaps it's really true when they say "Bull**** baffles Brains".

Only so far as the bullship baffling those brains that can't seem to
grasp what the BS w/o V device really is.


Or "We get the kind of government that we deserve". Gee.

Huh?

Brooks

I'm proud that you wore the uniform, sweetheart,
and I'm glad I never had to go through what you did.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

Oustanding post. The wannabees sure are getting tiresome.

Arthur Kramer

Whaaatever...just seems that you guys are looking at short term
gain at the expense of long term. If you want to degrade the
'value' of your medals then why should I care?...fill yer
boots...
--

-Gord.


I agree with all three of you. Those who were never there will never understand
that a combat atta boy medal for service without valour is needed.

Gord is also correct in that we do hand out way too many decorations on the
whole. I won't address specific other than to say look at the achievment and
commendation medals as they are shovelled out now versus 20 years ago.

There is one ribbon issued that defies logic. Whether you go through basic,
OSC, OTS, ROTC, the li'l 2 week orientation for medical/legal officers etc you
get a cute li'l bitty ribbon that says you are authorized to wear the uniform.

I find it mildy amusing that a U.S.A.F. serviceman,non flying, enlisted or
officer, is likely to have more confetti on his chest after 4 years man who
served in the infantry in combat during WW2 in the U.S.
Army.

On another subject if the U.S. Army had been at Rorke's Drift instead of the
Brits the commander would have got the MOH, the officers and a few enlisted
would have got the silver star and some of the rest would have got the bronze
star. IIRC there were 11 VCs awarded. Most of those went to the enlisteds.

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

"B2431" wrote in message
...
I find it mildy amusing that a U.S.A.F. serviceman,non flying, enlisted or
officer, is likely to have more confetti on his chest after 4 years man
who
served in the infantry in combat during WW2 in the U.S.
Army.

The only way to really figure crap out any more is to look at the ribbons as
a whole. I've seen quite a few Navy types with lot's of Navy Commendation
Medals, etc. and no sea service ribbon. With the Army it's a little more
difficult but look for campaign ribbons (ie. NATO medal (Bosnia), SW Asia,
Armed Forces Expeditionary). It won't let you know if they've done combat,
but at least you know they've had to endure some amount of hardship.

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I
dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it.

Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think.

Mary

--
Mary Shafer Retired aerospace research engineer

"A MiG at your six is better than no MiG at all."
Anonymous US fighter pilot

In article ,
Mary Shafer wrote:

On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I
dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it.

Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think.

You know - Jessica Fletcher. The greatest serial killer in history.
Not only did she kill someone once a week, she kept convincing people
that somebody else did it.

--


Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

(M Power) wrote in message . com...
Since I have more important things to do than argue every day, unlike
yourself, I'm putting an end to this exchange. So reply to your
heart's content, because I'm done. The facts are as follows:

-PFC Lynch did nothing to deserve a BS. I know this, and so does
every other military person that I've spoken with. You however, do
not.

One wonders how you "know" this in spite of the fact that no official
record of her actions, or captivity, have been released to the
public...shoot from the hip much?


-You support PFC Lynch because you find her attractive.

LOL! Nope. I mean yes, she is I guess attractive, but they don't give
out the BS for looks.


-You don't presently understand, and never will, what a "hero" really
is.

I do know it is not defined by having received a BS w/o V, but
apparently that is gonna be news to you...


-You're an idiot.

My wife sometimes shares that view.


Take care!

Recommend you look into the "increasing your self-esteem" books
available in your local bookstore--they might be of help to you, at
least to the point where you won't feel it necessary to try to tear
down PFC Lynch in a misguided attempt to bolster your own...

Brooks

(Kevin Brooks) wrote in
m:

"Gord Beaman" ) wrote in message
. ..
"Brian" wrote:

[snip]

The US tendency to award medals at the drop of a hat
is baffling to those of us with roots in the Common-
wealth armed services.
Men of my fathers generation who were on active service
and in harms way 1939-1945 came home with a few campaign
medals or a mention in dispatches ( for not getting shot
up after losing ones way as it happened ). Mind you looking at
some ancient photos of staff in a place Gord might be
familiar with shows a large number of DFCs among the post
war inmates of the Annapolis Valley's contribution to
world peace.
A great uncle was gassed at Ypres and was involved in
( one or perhaps two ) suicidal cavalry charges. He also
got shot at least once. For that he got one medal ( an MM )
plus the campaign gongs for 1915-1919 period which is approx
one more medal than his brother ( who was dragged off to a
prosthetics workshop rather than being sent to the trenches )
got.

IBM

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"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 15:22:53 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

I think there's a real issue about degrading the bronze star but I
dont think the award to Jessica Fletcher is it.

Lynch, not Fletcher. You're thinking of "Murder, She Wrote", I think.


Actually I was thinking of lynch mob, which seems to be the mentality
of some of the more extreme posters here.

Keith