USA - All students must show "papers"

(Bernie Lewis) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message roups.com...
There's probably an exemption if you can prove you're related to the
Saudi royal family.

It appears that many of you have not read the new rules. As a CFI, if
the worst that I have to do is check someones birth certificate, I
expect I can live with that. If it keeps ONE rag head from trying to
blow something up with an aircraft....It will be worth it. I also
suspect that many of those who say it infringes on their civil
liberties would be the first to ask why more wasn't done to gaurd
against suicide pilots, should something happen in the future with a
light airplane.

Bernie VR

Bernie,

It appears that you have not read the rules. I have broken it up into
two sections, "if you never teach a foreign person", and "if a foreign
person wants training". Note that the former section is longer than
the latter, that is, most of the work needs to be done whether or not
you ever see a foreign student.

You have to keep records of ALL applicants for five years, retain
records of security training, and if your paperwork fails the audit,
you are subject to enforcement action, who knows what penalty you are
liable for.

Sure makes me want to go get my CFIG.
John

"if you never teach a foreign person"
From http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulatory/regtsa.html:
Flight schools and freelance flight instructors:
o Determine whether an individual is an U.S. citizen.
o Retain applicant information and TSA approval records for
five years.
o The records are subject to TSA audit.
* Flight schools and freelance flight instructors, regardless of
whether they are training foreign students, must provide initial and
annual recurrent "security awareness training" for each flight school
employee that has a direct contact with a flight school student
(regardless of citizenship or nationality).
o Flight school employees must receive the initial security
awareness training by January 18, 2005. Employees hired after January
18, 2005 must receive the training within 60 days of being hired.
o Schools must maintain a record of such training for one
year after the employee leaves the school. Again, these records are
subject to TSA and FAA audit.
o TSA's initial online security awareness training program
will be available on October 30, 2004 at www.tsa.gov.
* Flight schools, including freelance flight instructors, that
fail to comply with the rule's requirements may be subject to
enforcement action.


"if a foreign person wants training"
o Register with TSA if providing training to foreign
students
o Notify TSA when a foreign applicant requests training
o Submit to TSA a photo of the foreign applicant after he or
she first arrives for training
o For recurrent training, the following must also be
submitted to TSA:
+ Foreign applicant's full name
+ TSA/DOJ identification number
+ Copy of foreign applicant's current, unexpired
passport and visa
+ Training details
+ Photo of the foreign applicant after he or she first
arrives for training
o Immediately terminate a foreign applicant's training if
informed by TSA the applicant poses a threat to aviation or national
security.
* Ground school and demonstration flights are exempt from the rule
and recurrent training is exempt from the fingerprints requirement.

According to the US Treasury's Air Transportation Stabilization Board
website:


http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/domes...activity.shtml

Northwest Airlines http://www.nwa.com is _not_ among those airlines
who have applied for and received so-called "bailout" funds from the
Federal Government, nor are any of the other largest US Airlines, with
the exception of UAL who have yet to have any of their applications
approved.

Interestingly, HR2926 authorized $15B, of which $10B were loan guarantees
(UAL case) and $5B in direct grants. Oddly, there is no mention of any
grant funds being requested nor dispersed via ATSB though the industry
stated losses were claimed to be $330M/day and would have qualified for the
grants. Lou Dobbs made the assertion on his 9/15 program that NWA had spent
$400M of these funds on Airbus acquisitions. That may have been citing the
documentary snippet 'American Jobs' that he was borrowing from that week. I
note there is no mention of this assertion in the transcripts of that day's
program. Nor have I found a retraction in subsequent programs. I e-mailed
CNN/Lou Dobbs for clarification on this assertion. Interestingly, I found
another assertion elsewhere that 50 percent of Airbus derives from US
sources8^) I have no real problem with globalized industries, other than
valued technologies are virtually given away. However, U.S. deflation is a
relatively painful process though it's at least 25 years overdue. The flip
side may mean we do things a heap smarter domestically sooner rather than
later.

Frank
[way off topic]

Comments to the TSA Docket are being accepted through
October 20. Electronic submission at: http://dmses.dot.gov/submit/


Comments filed to date are available online through:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchFormSimple.cfm
(Enter 19147 as the docket #)

The docket includes the following from SSA:

- Request for delayed implementation, for lack of means
to comply with the new rules & procedures ill-suited
to GA, particularly soaring

- Formal comments outlining rationale to amend the
new rules as applicable to GA, particularly soaring.
(There were inadvertently two copies of this posted...
one on letterhead and one without. Bodes well for my
'recordkeeping' skills, eh?)

- Petition for waiver from 49 USC 1552.

Judy

Judy Ruprecht wrote in message ...
Comments to the TSA Docket are being accepted through
October 20. Electronic submission at: http://dmses.dot.gov/submit/


Comments filed to date are available online through:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/searchFormSimple.cfm
(Enter 19147 as the docket #)


Thanks for the links Judy. As a resident alien I'll be significantly
impacted by the rule and have submitted my comments.


Andy

Stewart Kissel wrote in message ...
Tom-

Dave C. at Mile-Hi said an existing license counts...I
just called him.



I suggest that he needs to read the rule. I hold an FAA pilot
certificate but under the rule I cannot recieve instruction without a
security check. I am a US resident alien.


Andy

Brent Sullivan, Libertarian candidate for US Congress, 18th Congressional
district of Texas.
Member of the Soaring Club of Houston. Mosquito owner; former PW5 owner.
Hope admitting that doesn't lose me the election!

"CV" wrote in message
...

Dave Martin wrote:
Another thread asks abut flying lawyers, what about
flying politicians.........!

Well, Kerry for one ...

Judy Ruprecht wrote in message ...
Snippage

Judy, when is the date it's proposed to go into effect? I still have
that hour coming, but thanks to the quacks, have absolutely no idea
when I'll be able to have a day without driving into suicide driver
city. (Milwaukee)

In the event you have trouble obtaining the requisite identification,
the enclosed link provides an excellent and approved alternative:

www.whitehouse.org/homeland/tattoo.asp

Chip Fitzpatrick

excellent and approved alternative:

www.whitehouse.org/homeland/tattoo.asp

Chip Fitzpatrick

Chip, is that to complement the micro chip encapsulated in your tongue ring
that you were showing off at the field last weekend?

Jim Vincent
N483SZ
illspam

As a "resident alien" this ruling strikes me as none to well thought
out. Interstingly, I assume (at least I hope) that when Immigration
issues a green card they do some verfication at the time. The card
also includes a photograph and a fingerprint. So, as far as I can
tell no new information is really being captured if agencies simply
talked to each other, but the flightschool (or rather our glider club)
is being made to jump through hoops with no added national security
and potentially a detrimental effect on flight safety if people are in
any way discouraged from taking additional or recurrent trainining.
Stunning.

I have filed a comment to the docket and encourage others
(particularily affected resident aliens) to do so also. Please, keep
them rational rather than emotional, but do file a comment.

P.S. This thing may take a while to work its way around to common
sense. So, if you need one within the next 3 months - absolutely do
it before the 20th lest you find yourself grounded waiting for your
instructor to receive 'TSA approval' to give you instruction (I really
hope I'm interpretting that wrongly).