GLIDING INTERNATIONAL -- RESEARCH

Once again, a post drug off into never never land after having some pretty good discusions regarding risk and safety.

We get it that 2G and this canadian guy have an ongoing war. We get it that CQ does’nt think much of USA conservative politics.

Yes I also react to posts when they rile me, but always try to get back to the topic at hand, this case being assessing risk and maybe modifying behavior, setting personal do’s n don’ts. Its interesting that these same risk comparisons were made during the early rash of fatal accidents we were seeing in the 80’s. Some things just dont change.

On Monday, November 4, 2019 at 7:52:25 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Example, a guys got 3,000 hours of glider time but its most all flying over the home field with little or no off field landing experience. That guy is an accident waiting to happen when he finds himself in an unusual off field landing situation. The guy who has been pursuing his gold badge and had only a couple hundred hours but has had to make 5 off field landings this past year had a hell of a lot more “situational experience�.

So then logically, wasn't the guy (or girl) with the 5 off-field landings an accident waiting to happen BEFORE she made them?

I mean, off-field landings aren't something that we get to practice with an instructor onboard.

Ben

Hi Ben, true, the guy doing his first few off field landings is at greater risk. But the point being, the guy who has been doing alot of recent off field landings now has a body of experience to draw from when confronted with his next one. The guy who is just a local flier, is not as 1. Tuned up to accessing a field etc and 2. Doesnt have any experience to draw from.

I mean, off-field landings aren't something that we get to practice
with
an=
instructor onboard.

Ben


only in NA. Never understood why the motorglider wasn't more
accepted in the USA and Canada for this kind of training - almost every
western European club has one in the fleet.....

On Sunday, November 10, 2019 at 6:07:47 AM UTC-5, wrote:
Hi Ben, true, the guy doing his first few off field landings is at greater risk. But the point being, the guy who has been doing alot of recent off field landings now has a body of experience to draw from when confronted with his next one. The guy who is just a local flier, is not as 1. Tuned up to accessing a field etc and 2. Doesnt have any experience to draw from.

Agree, but it seems like a bit of a "Catch-22" until we have reliable, long-distance sustainer engines and/or reliable self-launching gliders, I just don't see how we can get from "point A" (no off-field landing experience) to "point B" (lots of off-field landing experience) without becoming an accident statistic (i.e. an accident-waiting-to-happen that consequently happened).

Condor2 with Oculus Rift VR (Virtual Reality - which I have and use almost daily) helps with off-field landing procedures, but the landscape scenery is not yet detailed enough to show boulders, fences, haystacks, potholes, etc., so it's not all that valuable for this purpose.

I suppose the FAA could require us all to take off-field landing instruction in motor gliders, as some high-time glider instructors have suggested before, but that would add a lot to the cost of a glider rating. Does the accident rate warrant that?

Yes Charles there is a little catch 22 involved but it can be minimized. Getting some instr in motorglider is not really necessary. Any power plane will do. Really the essential skill involved is field selection and evaluation. Flying in a power plane at say 1500 ft agl will give a guy the perspective he will be seeing when confronted with an outlanding. A guy can get experience making a field selection and evaluation and simulated approach then both go up and relook it over to cat h what he might have missed in an actual landing and/or then drive over there and apraise that same field from the ground. Thats what an old timer did with me when I was a kid preparing for mu first xc.

Additionally, a guy can do the same excercise on every glider flight he makes. While even thermaling at height a guy can look and see where he thinks he maybe could put her down then later take a closer look at a google earth shot of that same field and zoom in to whatever altitude he wants to check it out. While not being able to see rocks in the field, the google earth shot does show the hedge rows many of the wires, their support poles and the field slope. This is a great and pain free excercise to help a guy on off field decision making.
Dan

On Sunday, November 3, 2019 at 3:04:36 AM UTC-5, wrote:
We at Gliding International have just completed a three months study on the accident sitution in regard to our sport. We have examined (in detail) the 96 reported accidents which show that our problematic area of soaring flight relates to the landing phase.

We took note of all accidents from 1/1/2019 to 31/08/2019 which indicates for sure (on the conservative side) that fatalities for the calendar year of 2019 will be 43. No organisation or sport should turn a blind eye to what is obviously a totally unacceptable situation.

We haven't got an answer to this problem but we are open to discussion and be a catalyst for change.

Also in our November issue is a report from Sebastian Kawa who has personally set out to explain his recent serious accident. An uphill landing into a very questionable landing zone with no options. He must be complimented for writing his report on the accident for our sport enthusiasts. He tells all how to avoid a repetition of the problem. Basically the accident emanated from the failure of his motor to start. He has quoted the number of experiences he has personally experienced with motor failures and has started a war on brands of motors that must be regarded as totally unreliable.

JOHN ROAKE
EDITOR


You do not have to fly to evaluate fields.
As you drive to the airport, briefly, survey the fields and assess them for
suitability; ie length, slope, crop, hazards; this has been one of my habits for 60 years.
ohn F

On Sun, 10 Nov 2019 09:07:32 -0800, john firth wrote:

You do not have to fly to evaluate fields.
As you drive to the airport, briefly, survey the fields and assess them
for suitability; ie length, slope, crop, hazards; this has been one of
my habits for 60 years.

That depends a lot on where you live: if most roadsides have only wire
fences or crash barriers, that works, but in places where there's
extensive ribbon development or major roads have either walls or rows of
trees on both sides to reduce road noise, its a bit harder.

The majority of my drive from home to the glider field is on roads
bounded by trees or hedges, and traffic is generally heavy enough to make
staring through farm gateways rather a bad idea.


--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

Now that would be irony..... get killed in a car wreck due to inattention caused by trying to scout landing fields so as not to kill ones self on an off field landing lol.