Lost comms after radar vector

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

However, what if comm is
lost on a center freq, in IMC and relatively near the destination? What is a
"reasonable" time to be holding over the IAF, from the ATC perspective?

None.

Is that "there is no time estimate that is reasonable" or "zero"?

"PaulaJay1" wrote in message
...

It bothers me that the 7600 code continues to "ring" at Control so they
want me
to switch back to the original code after some period of time. What
period?


About thirty seconds will be fine. If they haven't noticed it in that time
it's because they disabled it the last time someone decided to squawk 7600
down to the ground and forgot to restore it.



How do I know that Control has got the message?


It's a very annoying alarm, it's simply not something that can be ignored.



Don't I have enough to do if in IMC and lost comm? Why doesn't
Control have the onus (other than 'Put a bandaide over the button')
to stop the ring. They are in a nice airconditioned area separate
from the problem at hand. Kind a like the pig/chicken joke of
han and eggs, I'm dedicated while with them it's a passing fancy.


Well, what do you think is better for you, forcing the controller to step
away from his scope several times every minute in order to be able to
communicate with the aircraft that are potentially in your way, or returning
your transponder to it's previously assigned code?



If a lost
com ever happens to me, I hope I remember to set 7600, and if I do, I plan
to
change it back on a taxiway somewhere.


Do whatever you feel is in your own best interest.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

In most cases the clearance limit is the destination airport, how
do you comply with FAR 91.185(c)(3)?

Easy -- per 91.185(c)(3)(ii). Holding over the airport would be a Standard
pattern per AIM 5-3-7.c. If there is no VOR or NDB co-located at the airport
and airplane was not equipped with RNAV, the holding point could be determined
from the description in the IFR Supplement, approach plate, or other publication
of the position (heading/distance) from the airport of a nearby VOR or NDB.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

In other words, you'd take the position that lost comms in IMC is an
in-flight emergency requiring immediate action and use the emergency
authority of FAR 91.3(b).

It is not ALWAYS an emergency requiring immediate action; but it could be,
depending on the situation, and it may develop into one later. The AIM gives
the discretion to the PIC.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:qSdPb.92920$nt4.227694@attbi_s51...

Is that "there is no time estimate that is reasonable" or "zero"?


Zero.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:00ePb.92950$nt4.228782@attbi_s51...

It is not ALWAYS an emergency requiring immediate action; but it could be,
depending on the situation, and it may develop into one later. The AIM
gives
the discretion to the PIC.


If it's not an in-flight emergency requiring immediate action, how can he
head for the nearest VMC?

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:00ePb.89430$Rc4.449664@attbi_s54...

Easy -- per 91.185(c)(3)(ii). Holding over the airport would be a
Standard
pattern per AIM 5-3-7.c. If there is no VOR or NDB co-located at the
airport
and airplane was not equipped with RNAV, the holding point could be
determined from the description in the IFR Supplement, approach plate, or
other publication of the position (heading/distance) from the airport of a
nearby VOR or NDB.


Okay. I'm heading to Milwaukee from Grand Rapids. I've filed the
preferential, GRR..MKG.V2.SUDDS..MKE, and have been cleared as filed.
I'm flying a BE35/U; two nav/comms, GS receiver, ADF, and marker
beacon receiver. At MINNY I discover I cannot transmit or receive on
either comm radio. How do I hold over the airport?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

Okay. I'm heading to Milwaukee from Grand Rapids. I've filed the
preferential, GRR..MKG.V2.SUDDS..MKE, and have been cleared as filed.
I'm flying a BE35/U; two nav/comms, GS receiver, ADF, and marker
beacon receiver. At MINNY I discover I cannot transmit or receive on
either comm radio. How do I hold over the airport?

Per AIM 5-3-7.c:

Over MKE
Standard pattern (right turn, 1 or 1 1/2 minute legs)
On the course from SUDDS to MKE
At your cleared altitude
Until the time calculated per 91.185(c)(3)(ii)

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:RJePb.93042$nt4.231643@attbi_s51...

Per AIM 5-3-7.c:

Over MKE
Standard pattern (right turn, 1 or 1 1/2 minute legs)
On the course from SUDDS to MKE
At your cleared altitude
Until the time calculated per 91.185(c)(3)(ii)


How do I navigate from SUDDS to MKE?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote...

How do I navigate from SUDDS to MKE?

I was under the impression you were an instrument-rated pilot as well as an ATC
controller...

Direct, using the time/heading/distance from your preflight planning. [From the
question, I assume MKE doesn't have a VOR at the field. I'm in Seattle, and
don't have charts or other pubs for the MKE area, so I'll fast-forward you to
WA.]

If I was enroute to BFI (Boeing Field, WA, which does not have a co-located
VOR), I would know to look up the nearby NAVAIDS in the Airport/Facility
Directory, and find that BFI is at the SEA 341/5.7. I would plot the course and
distance from my previous waypoint (e.g., TAGOR, on V 120, SEA 069/16) on a
Sectional, and transfer it (approx 291/17) to my kneeboard Nav card.

In the airplane, if I lost comm prior to TAGOR, all I have to do is fly direct
from TAGOR to the SEA 341/5.7 (cross-checking with the PARKK NDB at the field,
if I don't have DME -- I could do this as an NDB hold, too, but I am assuming
that isn't an option at MKE), using the preplanned heading and time, adjusted
for any wind corrections I'd been using enroute to TAGOR.