AIR Glide S

Comparing instantaneous wind to average wind will show you any local wind deviations as they occur near thermals. Can't find the thermal under a cloud? Just follow the diverging local wind. Need to find the best line along a cloud street or convergance? Watch the local wind. Feel that blue thermal nearby, but not sure where to turn? The wind will tell you.



Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2015 16:01:38 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
Of what use is instantaneous wind?* Can you react to it without
flapping control surfaces all over the place?* Do you use it for
planning your next turn in a thermal?



Not knocking it, I just don't get it why it would be important.*
Please enlighten me.

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 2:16:29 PM UTC-7, John Carlyle wrote:
Thanks for posting those links. I'd be interested in trying some of the settings described in the second link - if I could just read the instrument settings.

Any chance that someone could translate the words on the screens?

-John, Q3

On Tuesday, October 20, 2015 at 11:12:13 AM UTC-4, krasw wrote:
I recently found some interesting articles concerning AIR Glide S and it's inertial platform in particular. Enjoy:

http://www.how2soar.de/index.php/584...ut-frustration

http://www.how2soar.de/images/H2S_me...sch%20V2.1.pdf

http://www.asl.ethz.ch/people/lestef...l/icra2012.pdf

Latter one has some heavy math in it, but worth reading anyway (incl. references for further study). They measured AIR Glide ISU accuracy with GPS signal switched off. Position error was 600 meter after 30 mins flight. Not bad.

John,

Google translator

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 7:01:38 AM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
Of what use is instantaneous wind?* Can you react to it without
flapping control surfaces all over the place?* Do you use it for
planning your next turn in a thermal?



Not knocking it, I just don't get it why it would be important.*
Please enlighten me.




On 10/21/2015 3:06 AM, krasw wrote:



On Wednesday, 21 October 2015 03:32:11 UTC+3, jfitch wrote:


Regarding the description of wind accuracy in the first link: This was my impression also: that the instantaneous wind indication could not be accurate, as it was so dynamic. However after two years of use I have come to believe it is accurate, and the wind field really is that dynamic, you just had no way to measure it before. This instrument is really in a class of its own.


I agree, I started noticing noise in wind measurement when going to under 2 sec time constant. Wind measurement is basically as fast as the variometer. Now who would do a software where I could record 3D airmass movement with AIR Glide to a file and visualize it later with Seeyou or similar?





--

Dan, 5J

The companion software iGlide uses it as a thermal centering tool. Each lift dot displayed each second while thermaling has in it an instantaneous wind vector. These point towards the center of the thermal with pretty good reliability. I have experimented with using the instantaneous wind deviation to judge which way to turn, however iGlide does not display the vectors until you have already turned about 270 or you zoom in to an otherwise unusable level. Something I would like them to work on.

There are other uses: flying out of Truckee and returning from the south we have long known that the glide over the Carson valley is usually better than fair at the end of the day. I thought this was due to delayed sink, buoyant air, or something. But now I know that there is very frequently a strong tailwind blowing up the middle of the valley above about 12,000 ft. Like 22 - 28 knots from the south on an otherwise 10 knots from the west day. So rather than crossing directly to Lake Tahoe, I now fly up the middle of the valley until I lose that tailwind, then turn. Never knew that before and most people still don't. This kind of tailwind will eventually show up on computers using traditional wind calculation methods, but the time constants are so long you will lose most of the benefit. The shift in velocity does not show up on CU or XCSoar until you are just about out of it.

I also now notice serious wind shears with increasing altitude. The headwind may increase from 12 knots to 22 knots in 500 ft of climb. Usually near the top of the thermal band, but worth exploiting in some instances.

That's great for telling me what does, but not how to use it. Are you
saying to always turn downwind in the local micro wind to get to the
center of the thermal?

Maybe my CNvXC vario has this capability, maybe not. I'll have to do
some research on that. In the mean time, I've had good luck with
finding thermals at the upwind edge of cumulus clouds. That's not
always the case but true more often than not.

On 10/21/2015 8:34 AM, Alex wrote:
Comparing instantaneous wind to average wind will show you any local wind deviations as they occur near thermals. Can't find the thermal under a cloud? Just follow the diverging local wind. Need to find the best line along a cloud street or convergance? Watch the local wind. Feel that blue thermal nearby, but not sure where to turn? The wind will tell you.



Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2015 16:01:38 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:
Of what use is instantaneous wind? Can you react to it without
flapping control surfaces all over the place? Do you use it for
planning your next turn in a thermal?



Not knocking it, I just don't get it why it would be important.
Please enlighten me.

--
Dan, 5J

Dan et al,
Flying in convergence, the Air-Glide informs you of approaching shear line conditions. The wind changes from a ~10Kt tailwind through 9, 6, 4, 3, to "Still", at which point your vario is going up. If you fly through the shear, there will be a similar indicated headwind.
Running along the shear, if the wind is from your right, move left. If it is from your left, move right. Simple. Accurate. Just as you imagine this shear stuff works.
No other vario I have personally flown with that will do that.
Jim


On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 2:33:02 PM UTC-7, Dan Marotta wrote:
That's great for telling me what does, but not how to use it.* Are
you saying to always turn downwind in the local micro wind to get to
the center of the thermal?



Maybe my CNvXC vario has this capability, maybe not.* I'll have to
do some research on that.* In the mean time, I've had good luck with
finding thermals at the upwind edge of cumulus clouds.* That's not
always the case but true more often than not.




On 10/21/2015 8:34 AM, Alex wrote:



Comparing instantaneous wind to average wind will show you any local wind deviations as they occur near thermals. Can't find the thermal under a cloud? Just follow the diverging local wind. Need to find the best line along a cloud street or convergance? Watch the local wind. Feel that blue thermal nearby, but not sure where to turn? The wind will tell you.



Am Mittwoch, 21. Oktober 2015 16:01:38 UTC+2 schrieb Dan Marotta:


Of what use is instantaneous wind?* Can you react to it without
flapping control surfaces all over the place?* Do you use it for
planning your next turn in a thermal?

Not knocking it, I just don't get it why it would be important.*
Please enlighten me.

Dan, 5J

Does the LX 9070 or similar with the compass option provide the same information?

On Wednesday, October 21, 2015 at 8:09:54 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
Dan et al,
Flying in convergence, the Air-Glide informs you of approaching shear line conditions. The wind changes from a ~10Kt tailwind through 9, 6, 4, 3, to "Still", at which point your vario is going up. If you fly through the shear, there will be a similar indicated headwind.
Running along the shear, if the wind is from your right, move left. If it is from your left, move right. Simple. Accurate. Just as you imagine this shear stuff works.
No other vario I have personally flown with that will do that.
Jim

On Thursday, 22 October 2015 08:19:48 UTC+3, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
Does the LX 9070 or similar with the compass option provide the same information?

At similar rate and accuracy? Absolutely not.

Several legacy variometers have had electric compass options since 90's. Instant wind speed can be calculated with TAS, GS, track and compass reading. Electric compass placement was absolutely critical then, as it is today. Comparing wind display of these old computers to full blown AIR Glide ISU is day and night difference. Since variometer manufacturers are shy of revealing the science behind their products, one can only quess what technology goes into LX.

How do you know the LX 9000 series with compass doesn't perform as well for winds? The new LX Nav compass module with 3 axis accelerometers and 3 axis magnetometers has only recently become available and I, for one, am waiting to hear how it is performing.

John Galloway

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 10:00:09 AM UTC+3, krasw wrote:
Several legacy variometers have had electric compass options since 90's. Instant wind speed can be calculated with TAS, GS, track and compass reading.

Instant headwind/tailwind component, yes.

Side gusts are unknown until either the glider equalizes with them, or the pilot uses the rudder to bring the yawstring into the middle (which will change the compass reading and TAS).

Now, if the yawstring angle was an input to the computer...

(or, better, a weather vane in the free flow .. maybe a nice addition to the TE probe? Or use multiple suction holes at different angles, with individual pressure metering)

My current setup is: redbox Flarm IGC - LX V7 - GliderGuider - XCSoar

From XCSoar I can
- declare tasks and download flights to/from the redbox
- sync V7 settings such as MC,ballast,bugs,QNH
- IIRC V7 gets goal info for final glide etc from XCSoar
- display Flarm info

I am wondering if I can replace the V7 and redbox with an AirGlide. I realise that it is not so well supported by XCSoar but is it still compatible or will I lose functionality.

setup would then be (I guess) something like

AirGlide sensor box IGC - AirGlide S - AIR Glide NMEA Interface Box - GG - XCsoar

Obviously I am especially interested in the wind info. Is it shown (well) on the AirGlide S or do I need one of the bigger displays to gain full advantage.

Is wind only shown *after* I start circling as mentioned in the linked document which would be a shame

Does the AirGlide send out this tasty wind (and inertial) info on the serial cable (at a fast rate) so that XCSoar could displayed it (maybe with some additional programming).

Peter