If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
Roger Conroy wrote:
On Nov. 5, 3:53 am, dumbstruck wrote: On Nov. 3, 3:24 am, Tiger wrote: India's AF is looking to make a huge purchase & production deal. $10 Billion dollars for 126 aircraft. They are looking to replace their Mig 21's. There are about 6 Firms/ planes up for consideration. Eruofighter Typhoon Saab Gripen Boeing's F-18 Lock Mart's F16 Mig's 29 & 35 Dassualt's Rafale & Mirage series So if you had $10 Billion to spend? What would you buy for your force?? Keep in mind the needs of India, the potential foes & that any US plane come with political strings attached (like Pakistanis f-16 deal). Rough field capability would be a plus; do the Saab and Mig offerings still favor that? Eurofighter and Dassualt are probably very motivated to negotiate price, but maybe Mig most of all... logical winner? Snip fantasy............ I'd say go with the SAAB. Avoid the political "strings attached" that come with buying from "Uncle Sam" or from "Brother Russia". The Grippen is a really good 5th generation multirole fighter, way ahead the F16 and F18 are antique designs that are really at the end of their useful life. The TCO is a lot lower too and so is ease of maintenance. I'm a Saab fan as well. However...... Just to throw another curve into the job requirements. India's Navy is Buying/ building new Ski jump equipped carriers to replace the ex-HMSHermes. They are slated to use Mig 29-K Naval versions of the MIG. The Built in naval capability of the Raffale and small size make it a contender as well. France also lacks the political strings. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
"Jack Linthicum" wrote in message oups.com... On Nov 5, 6:59 am, "William Black" wrote: "Rob Arndt" wrote in message ups.com... My personal favorite would be a low tech option that takes advantage of India's vast manpower. With 1.1 billion people, maybe they should emulate China and think indigenous design, with a little help from their allies ------------------- The Indian military has a problem with completing large projects. They know they have a problem and they keep trying to do something about it, but nothing much seems to work. This is why they prefer to buy big stuff. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. I would advise buying something that is in existence right now. Musharraf is going to be looking for something to unify a country that consists of four minorities. A nice nuke war with India would suit for the present. India's too big, far too well equipped and ready for exactly that war. Islamic extremists have been blowing up Indian cites for a couple of years now and the Indian public, in my estimation, is about ready to see Pakistan given a sound thrashing. Pakistan needs someone they can beat, not someone who'll invade and make speeches about 'reunifying mother India' and 'destroying the legacy of colonialism' in the UN while looking smug as their tanks roll into Islamabad. -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:01:17 -0800, Rob Arndt
wrote: Easiest answer is whatever meets India's needs in the region and not what Russia, Europe, or the US think they need... It won't be a US plane. The F-16s and F-18s are somewhat dated designs that carry a high purchase cost and bring with them too much political baggage. Should India not meet US expectations in certain US geopolitical goals delivery and support is held up. With 1.1 billion people, maybe they should emulate China and think indigenous design, with a little help from their allies From an interview with Singapore's Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew This is the most important insight. http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/articl...parentid=79541 Q: On India, there's been a lot of hype in America, in foreign affairs publications and so on, about India becoming the next superpower. I was in New Delhi about three months ago -- it seems to me India's got a long way to go. Lee: They are a different mix, never mind their political structures. They are not one people. You can make a speech in Delhi; [Prime Minister] Manmohan Singh can speak in Hindi and 30, 40 percent of the country can understand him. He makes a speech in English and maybe 30 percent of the elite understand him. In China, when a leader speaks, 90 percent will understand him. They all speak one language, they are one people. In India, they have got 32 official languages and in fact, 300-plus different languages. You look at Europe, 25 languages, 27 countries, how do you? The European Parliament? Had we not moved into one language here in Singapore, we would not have been able to govern this country. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
William Black wrote:
[snip] Pakistan needs someone they can beat, not someone who'll invade and make speeches about 'reunifying mother India' and 'destroying the legacy of colonialism' in the UN while looking smug as their tanks roll into Islamabad. If Pakistan wants someone to shoot their neighbour Afghanistan will keep the Army busy for a few decades. Andrew Swallow |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
"Andrew Swallow" wrote in message news William Black wrote: [snip] Pakistan needs someone they can beat, not someone who'll invade and make speeches about 'reunifying mother India' and 'destroying the legacy of colonialism' in the UN while looking smug as their tanks roll into Islamabad. If Pakistan wants someone to shoot their neighbour Afghanistan will keep the Army busy for a few decades. They won't even try. They keep bouncing of the NWF Province, they won't go further in, they're not that daft... One of the 'stans' might be a possibility if the US or Russia isn't propping them up... Such a pity Nepal doesn't have a border with Pakistan... -- William Black I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach Time for tea. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
In article . com, Roger
Conroy wrote: On Nov 5, 3:53 am, dumbstruck wrote: On Nov 3, 3:24 am, Tiger wrote: India's AF is looking to make a huge purchase & production deal. $10 Billion dollars for 126 aircraft. They are looking to replace their Mig 21's. There are about 6 Firms/ planes up for consideration. Eruofighter Typhoon Saab Gripen Boeing's F-18 Lock Mart's F16 Mig's 29 & 35 Dassualt's Rafale & Mirage series So if you had $10 Billion to spend? What would you buy for your force?? Keep in mind the needs of India, the potential foes & that any US plane come with political strings attached (like Pakastians f-16 deal). Rough field capability would be a plus; do the Saab and Mig offferings still favor that? Eurofighter and Dassualt are probably very motivated to negotiate price, but maybe Mig most of all... logical winner? Snip fantasy............ I'd say go with the SAAB. Avoid the political "strings attached" that come with buying from "Uncle Sam" or from "Brother Russia". The Grippen is a really good 5th generation multirole fighter, way ahead the F16 and F18 are antique designs that are really at the end of their useful life. The TCO is a lot lower too and so is ease of maintenance. Fantasy indeed if you think the F/A-18E/F is an antique design. What on the list is newer? -- Harry Andreas Engineering raconteur |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
On Nov 5, 11:25 pm, (Harry Andreas) wrote:
In article . com, Roger Conroy wrote: On Nov 5, 3:53 am, dumbstruck wrote: On Nov 3, 3:24 am, Tiger wrote: India's AF is looking to make a huge purchase & production deal. $10 Billion dollars for 126 aircraft. They are looking to replace their Mig 21's. There are about 6 Firms/ planes up for consideration. Eruofighter Typhoon Saab Gripen Boeing's F-18 Lock Mart's F16 Mig's 29 & 35 Dassualt's Rafale & Mirage series So if you had $10 Billion to spend? What would you buy for your force?? Keep in mind the needs of India, the potential foes & that any US plane come with political strings attached (like Pakastians f-16 deal). Rough field capability would be a plus; do the Saab and Mig offferings still favor that? Eurofighter and Dassualt are probably very motivated to negotiate price, but maybe Mig most of all... logical winner? Snip fantasy............ I'd say go with the SAAB. Avoid the political "strings attached" that come with buying from "Uncle Sam" or from "Brother Russia". The Grippen is a really good 5th generation multirole fighter, way ahead the F16 and F18 are antique designs that are really at the end of their useful life. The TCO is a lot lower too and so is ease of maintenance. Fantasy indeed if you think the F/A-18E/F is an antique design. What on the list is newer? -- Harry Andreas Engineering raconteur- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The FA-18E/F is just the latest "upgrade" of a decades old design. Sure it has all he latest bells and whistles but the basic airframe is last weeks news! Everything on the list is newer - except for (drum roll ...the envelope please...) the F16! The fundamental problem the US has is that their industry is so heavily invested in the F22 and F35 that they have neglected the market segment now served by the Grippen, Rafale, Typhoon, etc. All they can offer are aircraft that were designed before their pilots were even born! The only customers they get are countries that already operate older model F16s and F18s, and can't afford anything better. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
On Nov 5, 5:17 pm, Tiger wrote:
Rob Arndt wrote: On Nov 4, 5:53?pm, dumbstruck wrote: On Nov 3, 3:24 am, Tiger wrote: India's AF is looking to make a huge purchase & production deal. $10 Billion dollars for 126 aircraft. They are looking to replace their Mig 21's. There are about 6 ?Firms/ planes up for consideration. Eruofighter Typhoon Saab Gripen Boeing's F-18 Lock Mart's F16 Mig's 29 & 35 Dassualt's Rafale & Mirage series So if you had $10 Billion to spend? What would you buy for your force?? Keep in mind the needs of India, the potential foes & that any US plane come with political strings attached (like Pakastians f-16 deal). Rough field capability would be a plus; do the Saab and Mig offferings still favor that? Eurofighter and Dassualt are probably very motivated to negotiate price, but maybe Mig most of all... logical winner? But I would expand the search box. On the more futuristic side, consider unmanned hunter-killer drones like General Atomics MQ-9 Reaper, adding sidewinders. Using the price from Wikipedia, India could afford 12000 of these instead of 126 of the above. Well, maybe China or sombody could figure out how to jam UAV's. My personal favorite would be a low tech option that takes advantage of India's vast manpower. I'm thinking of a plywood overcast: 126000 rocket/cruise-missle carrying Mosquito's. Get the DeHavilland assembly plans from the internet, and make it's plywood from recycled scrap wood in a thousand village workshops. For engines, Russia must have heaps of worn out Kuznetsov turboprops used on Tupolev Bear bombers - those awesomely fast ones with counterrotating props might be rebuilt cheaply. Quantity has a quality of it's own, and that is India's forte. Easiest answer is whatever meets India's needs in the region and not what Russia, Europe, or the US think they need... With 1.1 billion people, maybe they should emulate China and think indigenous design, with a little help from their allies In the 21st century there will be 5 powers: US, United Europe, China, Russia, and India. China and India constitute 1/3rd of the entire world population and are growing while the US, Europe, and Russia are declining by birthrate. The West needs to start taking these nations seriously. Rob Well part of my orignial post stated that the deal would include provisions to domestically build. "Eighteen of the fighters would be bought off the shelf by 2012 while the remaining 108 planes would be manufactured under licence in India. India would also hold the option of purchasing another 64 fighters from the top bidder, Indian officials said."-http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20071102/bs_afp/indiausmilitaryweaponsavi...- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - From www.janes.com Indian air force chief warns of reliance on imports. The competence of the Indian defence industry has been "dulled" by "lack of competition and a readiness to import", India's Chief of the Air Staff has warned. Delivering the inaugural address to the 2nd International Conference on 'Energising Indian Aerospace Industry: New Partnerships, New Opportunities', Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major said private defence companies "must not be merely business partners of foreign vendors". And a side note - Thailand's purchase of 12 Grippen's is to go ahead after the US State Department cleared export of US made components to Tailand. |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
On Nov 6, 2:36 am, Roger Conroy wrote:
On Nov 5, 11:25 pm, (Harry Andreas) wrote: In article . com, Roger Conroy wrote: On Nov 5, 3:53 am, dumbstruck wrote: On Nov 3, 3:24 am, Tiger wrote: India's AF is looking to make a huge purchase & production deal. $10 Billion dollars for 126 aircraft. They are looking to replace their Mig 21's. There are about 6 Firms/ planes up for consideration. Eruofighter Typhoon Saab Gripen Boeing's F-18 Lock Mart's F16 Mig's 29 & 35 Dassualt's Rafale & Mirage series So if you had $10 Billion to spend? What would you buy for your force?? Keep in mind the needs of India, the potential foes & that any US plane come with political strings attached (like Pakastians f-16 deal). Rough field capability would be a plus; do the Saab and Mig offferings still favor that? Eurofighter and Dassualt are probably very motivated to negotiate price, but maybe Mig most of all... logical winner? Snip fantasy............ I'd say go with the SAAB. Avoid the political "strings attached" that come with buying from "Uncle Sam" or from "Brother Russia". The Grippen is a really good 5th generation multirole fighter, way ahead the F16 and F18 are antique designs that are really at the end of their useful life. The TCO is a lot lower too and so is ease of maintenance. Fantasy indeed if you think the F/A-18E/F is an antique design. What on the list is newer? -- Harry Andreas Engineering raconteur- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - The FA-18E/F is just the latest "upgrade" of a decades old design. Sure it has all he latest bells and whistles but the basic airframe is last weeks news! Everything on the list is newer - except for (drum roll ...the envelope please...) the F16! The fundamental problem the US has is that their industry is so heavily invested in the F22 and F35 that they have neglected the market segment now served by the Grippen, Rafale, Typhoon, etc. Why is that a fundamental problem? All they can offer are aircraft that were designed before their pilots were even born! The only customers they get are countries that already operate older model F16s and F18s, and can't afford anything better. |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
India is in the market for New Fighters. What would you buy????
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Missles, pt 5 - India prithvi.jpg (1/1) | Mitchell Holman | Aviation Photos | 1 | October 6th 07 05:29 AM |
Flight Training in India? | [email protected] | Piloting | 4 | September 13th 07 10:33 PM |
(a little variety at) ORD - Air India 747-400 | John D. | Aviation Photos | 0 | August 26th 07 04:01 AM |
India retires Cold War spy MiG-25s | fruitella | Naval Aviation | 3 | April 11th 06 08:00 PM |
Cope India 2004 | Dionysios Pilarinos | Military Aviation | 1 | March 11th 04 06:06 AM |