Is the 200ft below Min Finish Height Rule Working?

To sum up this thread...

1) I think the position the RC is in is an incredibly challenging one. But overall some form of an MFH cushion to "protect pilots from themselves" is important and adds to safety in general.

2) I think ANY penalty will cause the bad behavior which is pointed out in the very first post of this thread. The amount of penalty is almost irrelevant unless it is reduced dramatically.

3) I think a moderately reduced penalty structure (1/3 of current, or less) should be applied to a higher MFH standard (1200/1000). This would widen the margin of safety for a pilot trying to circle while making the penalty more acceptable when it is clear that little chance remains for saving the miscalculation.

After that the PIC is simply on his or her own. If they want to circle at 800 MSL for awhile and try to get above the administrative land out level....good luck to them. The rules have done their part in trying to encourage a safe approach into the finish and pattern and landing. And in most cases, that pilot will still have the energy for a safe pattern even after fighting for a while...

Sean

To sum up this thread...

1) I think the position the RC is an incredibly challenging one. Overall some form of an MFH cushion to "protect pilots from themselves" is important and adds to safety in general. I feel safer because of it, for sure, to be perfectly honest.

2) I think ANY penalty will cause the bad behavior which is pointed out in the very first post of this thread. The amount of penalty is almost irrelevant unless it is reduced dramatically.

3) I think a moderately reduced penalty structure (1/3 of current, or less) should be applied to a higher MFH standard (1200/1000). This would widen the margin of safety for a pilot trying to circle while making the penalty more acceptable when it is clear that little chance remains for saving the miscalculation.

After that the PIC is simply on his or her own. If they want to circle at 800 MSL for awhile and try to get above the administrative land out level....good luck to them. The rules have done their part in trying to encourage a safe approach into the finish and pattern and landing. And in most cases, that pilot will still have the energy for a safe pattern even after fighting for a while...

Sean

A tiny PS.

A pilot observed circling at low altitude, 1-2 miles from the finish, over a town or other unlandable terrain, in the general path of finishing gliders, could certainly be given an unsafe flying penalty. The same goes for a pointless huge pull up from 120 knots 400 feet 1.1 miles to 35 knots, 720 feet, 0.5 g's at the cylinder, pulling up underneath other gliders.

The CD has this right. There is nothing that stops a CD from issuing unsafe flying penalties based on the evidence in flight traces. There is nothing that stops fellow competitors from bringing the evidence in such traces to the CD's attention. Perhaps if a few CDs handed out some unsafe flying penalties based on trace evidence, a lot of this demand for rules would go away.

For rare events like these, involving at most one or two events in a season, and where it is generally agreed that the behavior involved is atrociously unsafe, it really is better to use simple tools already at hand than to try to micromanage everything from top down and write a rule or carefully constructed penalty scheme.

The general concept of a high finish, with no speed points for crossing at some point, moves everyone's final glides up, and addresses a quite strong temptation in previous rules to keep going at low altitude. Good. But it's going to be very hard to write a rule or penalty scheme that addresses every single idiotic thing a pilot might do --especially when, like the pull up at the finish, it really does not gain any points, and especially when most pilots don't follow the minutiae of just what the penalties are, once the snow melts.

John Cochrane

Ok so when I finish with all this extra height is it OK to loop it all off
before landing?
How one misses the old days!