Does V-22 Go Twices as Far, carry Twice as Much?

George,

I have seen that arrangement before, it seems to have the ability to blend
the properties of a helicopter and a wing, but there are enormous practical
considerations to be overcome before it could fly. None are deal-killers,
but the sum of them is quite a bit of development work to assure production
capability. Mostly, concerns center on the 1) structural capability of the
rotors, which have virtually no hinge (about 50% hinge offset) and 2) the
ability to stop/stow and redeploy while airborne, with the tremendous
stresses and dynamic changes inherent in that trick. The X-wing tried that
(with a larger rotor) and was never successful, in the end.
Certainly, the Diskrotor tries to win back some low disk loading, a very
good first step!

Nick


"George Vranek" wrote in message
...
Hello Mr. Lappos

Would it be fair to toss a fourth rotor configuration in to the
competition?
www.diskrotor.com

George

"Dave Jackson" wrote in message
news:IbHZe.556210$s54.151893@pd7tw2no...
Nick,

Would it be fair to toss a third rotor configuration in to the
competition?

How about the Side-by-Side Kamov KA-22 "Vintokryl:

http://www.vstol.org/wheel/VSTOLWheel/KamovKa-22.htm

~ Speed of 192 knots [record]

~ Payload of 36,343 lbs [record]

~ Gross weight of 65,036 lbs

This is a 44-year-old helicopter. Just think of what could be done with
today's engines and composite materials.

I think that it's a slam-dunk for the Vintokryl.

Dave



"Nick Lappos" wrote in message
...
Just to keep the juices flowing, and get this newsgroup buzzing again,
try this:

http://webpages.charter.net/nlappos/...comparison.pdf

Nick,

here are my answers on your concerns.

"Nick Lappos" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
George,

I have seen that arrangement before, it seems to have the ability to blend
the properties of a helicopter and a wing, but there are enormous
practical
considerations to be overcome before it could fly. None are deal-killers,
but the sum of them is quite a bit of development work to assure
production
capability. Mostly, concerns center on the 1) structural capability of
the
rotors, which have virtually no hinge (about 50% hinge offset) .....but
thanks to the GFRP technology, the helicopters with hingeless rotors are
quite succesfull.

and 2) the
ability to stop/stow and redeploy while airborne, with the tremendous
stresses and dynamic changes inherent in that trick.....the trick is in
the sequency: first stow, than stop and first rotate, than redeploy. It is
even possible to keep the disk in a slow rotation after stowing the
rotorblades and use it as a small AWACS.

The X-wing tried that
(with a larger rotor) and was never successful, in the end.....but the
X-wing equipped with the disk rotor could be the world first supersonic
helicopter!!!


Certainly, the Diskrotor tries to win back some low disk loading, a very
good first step!....thanks for the flowers....and not only this! The disk
brings law and order in to the aerodynamic of a helicopter rotor.

Nick

This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank

Hello Helowriter,

The machine on the www.vtol.org is a tiltrotor! Remember, the tiltrotors
have not optimal rotors for howering and not optimal props for crusing.
Therefore they are the wrong way to make a helicopter flying fast. The V-22,
which is a result of 50 (five, zero) years of development, carries half as
much, just so far, at twice the cost of an equivalent conventional
helicopter and is only 50 % faster!!! The diskrotor helicopter shown at
www.diskrotor.com equipped with two F-119 engines will take off, hower,
autorotate and land as a convetional helicopter and cruise supersonic as the
Concorde did!!!

George


"Helowriter" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank

George,
The only disagreement I have with your posts is the statement of
futurity that pervades your thinking, as in "The diskrotor will...."

Don't take this the wrong way, but nothing "will" until it "has" and
not even a model of the diskrotor "has" flown. The technical hurdles in
making a rotor that operates in a wide variety of speeds, rotational
rates and maneuver states is a very challenging undertaking.

When do you think you will fly something, even a part-scale model?

Nick



George Vranek wrote:
Hello Helowriter,

The machine on the www.vtol.org is a tiltrotor! Remember, the tiltrotors
have not optimal rotors for howering and not optimal props for crusing.
Therefore they are the wrong way to make a helicopter flying fast. The V-22,
which is a result of 50 (five, zero) years of development, carries half as
much, just so far, at twice the cost of an equivalent conventional
helicopter and is only 50 % faster!!! The diskrotor helicopter shown at
www.diskrotor.com equipped with two F-119 engines will take off, hower,
autorotate and land as a convetional helicopter and cruise supersonic as the
Concorde did!!!

George


"Helowriter" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank

Nick,
I am sorry for my statement "The diskrotor will...." You know, my mother
speech is czech and not english, therefore...
A balsa model with disk dia 10" (254 mm), 1/10" (2.5 mm) thick, with C.G.
exact in the center of the disk and with the horizontal tail at + 2
deg.relative to the disk plane, flown stable and stright with a glide ratio
of ca. 1 : 3.
I have got the Diskrotor idea in July 1993 after reading the page No. 62 at
the World Aerospace Technology 91, where Mr. Evan Fradenbourg describes a
High speed stowed rotor design aircraft. I have sent him a letter with a
description of my idea and he answered, that he is no longer associated with
Sikorsky Aircraft and that "...they are conducting research on advanced
tiltrotor aicraft, not stowed rotor concepts. Therefore I doubt that they
would be interested in the diskrotor idea..." If you want, I could scan both
documents and sed them on .

George


"NickL" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
oups.com...
George,
The only disagreement I have with your posts is the statement of
futurity that pervades your thinking, as in "The diskrotor will...."

Don't take this the wrong way, but nothing "will" until it "has" and
not even a model of the diskrotor "has" flown. The technical hurdles in
making a rotor that operates in a wide variety of speeds, rotational
rates and maneuver states is a very challenging undertaking.

When do you think you will fly something, even a part-scale model?

Nick



George Vranek wrote:
Hello Helowriter,

The machine on the www.vtol.org is a tiltrotor! Remember, the tiltrotors
have not optimal rotors for howering and not optimal props for crusing.
Therefore they are the wrong way to make a helicopter flying fast. The
V-22,
which is a result of 50 (five, zero) years of development, carries half
as
much, just so far, at twice the cost of an equivalent conventional
helicopter and is only 50 % faster!!! The diskrotor helicopter shown at
www.diskrotor.com equipped with two F-119 engines will take off, hower,
autorotate and land as a convetional helicopter and cruise supersonic as
the
Concorde did!!!

George


"Helowriter" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
ups.com...
This will fix the entire problem.

http://www.vtol.org/issues.html#mono

Of course, I don't think I'd like to ride in it, or under it, or
whatever you do with it.

Frank

Thanks for the response, George. I worked with Evan Fredenberg for
many years. There is no reason to send the documents.

Good luck with your concept!

Nick