Back to square one on buying an Arrow

I have been thinking about selling my pa28-235 for some time, but I dread
the process. I understand why a buyer inexperienced with the model would
want a prebuy inspection, and I respect that. But until I have a check in
my hand, the plane is still mine and I am going to treat it as such. Buyers
need to respect that.

Letting some unknown mechanic disassemble, poke and prod MY plane makes me
sick to my stomach. Every time things are disassembled/reassembled is a
chance for things to get scratched, broken, screws cross-threaded, and so
forth. Every time the plane is put in a mechanic's shop is a chance for
hangar rash. With advance apologies to the many good mechanics out there,
there are also a lot of inept ones and a few that are downright
unscrupulous. I'm not going to give one of them the chance to hold my plane
hostage at their field for a bogus squawk or something they broke.

Now is when several people will jump in with the refrain of "Ooooh, if he
won't let your mechanic do an off-field prebuy inspection, then he must be
hiding something!!! Run!!!" That's fine, please don't let the door hit
you in the *ss on your way out.

Obviously this will limit my pool of buyers, and it will take longer to
sell. The buyer will have to be someone who is experienced with pa28 and
knows what to look for. I'll be happy to remove the inspection panels and
take off the cowl, and he can come LOOK at it in MY hanger. If desired, he
can have a mechanic of his choice come and LOOK at it in my hangar. But
while the plane is still mine, it is not going to the buyer's shop or being
touched by the buyer's mechanic.

Once the plane belongs to the buyer, he can let anyone he wants do anything
he wants with it. Until then, keeping it airworthy and safe from damage is
my (and my mechanic's) job. Look but don't touch, and do it at my hangar.
A potential sale is not worth the risk of turning the plane over to a
mechanic I don't know and/or don't trust.

....Scott

I have been thinking about selling my pa28-235 for some time, but I
dread
the process. I understand why a buyer inexperienced with the model
would
want a prebuy inspection, and I respect that. But until I have a
check in
my hand, the plane is still mine and I am going to treat it as such.
Buyers
need to respect that.

Snip

I'll be happy to remove the inspection panels and
take off the cowl, and he can come LOOK at it in MY hanger. If
desired, he
can have a mechanic of his choice come and LOOK at it in my hangar.
But
while the plane is still mine, it is not going to the buyer's shop or
being
touched by the buyer's mechanic.

It's all a matter of degree. In Jack's case, the plane in question had
NOT complied with Service Bulletin 1006 (or at least I couldn't see it
in the logbooks) -- the "Big One" that addresses wing spar corrosion.
I'm assuming that Jack would have wisely required that this SB be
complied with, and the spar be checked, before or at the pre-buy.

This, of course, means removing the gas tanks -- a MAJOR operation on a
Cherokee -- pulling them forward and inspecting the spar. To comply
with the SB, you have to paint the spar with anti-corrosion goop, and
you might as well replace all the (probably original) fuel lines while
you're at it. None of this is cheap, and there is always the
opportunity to break, scratch or dent something in the process.

Was this the deal killer? Did the seller find someone dumb enough to
buy his plane *without* complying with this service bulletin? Dunno.
It's a major operation, and I wouldn't blame the seller for not wanting
to do it. On the other hand, any Cherokee that has sat outside for any
length of time -- and this one was parked on the ramp for a decade of
Illinois winters -- must comply with that SB, or (IMHO) it is a
completely unsellable aircraft.

So, Jack's search continues. Maybe you should sell him your 235, and
solve *everyone's* problems! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

FWIW, I'm not the Jack in this story. :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

"Doug" writes:

Hey, I'll tell you a story. Actually happened. Jack was running an FBO.
He maintained a Cessna 337 for a doctor. Doctor wants to sell and asks
Jack to sell it, Jack gets a comission. So a guy comes down from 800
miles away and checks the plane out, says yes I'll take it. Gives Jack
a $10K deposit with $120K to be paid upon delivery. Buyer flies home.
So Jack gets one of his instructors to deliver the plane, with
instructions to pick up the check and fly commercial back. So this
instructor flies the 337 to the buyers home field. Buyer gives him an
envelope with one of those glasseen windows in it with a Cashiers check
in it. Instructor flies back with the check. Jack takes the check out.
You know how when they issue a Cashiers check they give you a carbon
copy? Well, it's the carbon copy, not the check! So Jack figures honest
mistake and calls the buyer and says "we've got to talk about how you
are going to get us the check for the airplane". Buyer says, "No, what
we're going to talk about is how much I'm going to pay you for the
airplane".

There is an ending to this story.

What is it?

-jav

So, Jack's search continues. Maybe you should sell him your 235, and
solve *everyone's* problems! :-)

Hmmm, you wanna be my representative again Jay? We could go double or
nothing on dinner/beer at Friar tucks :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Agreed, if 1006 hasn't been done and the seller refused to pull the tanks
for a spar inspection, I'd walk away too. But as a seller, that still
doesn't mean taking the plane to someone else's shop or mechanic. Pulling
the tanks isn't that big a deal -- as long as your electric screwdriver
batteries don't go dea, and no screws are frozen.

On the other hand, if the existing owner hasn't had 1006 done after all this
time -- especially if it has EVER POSSIBLY been kept outside -- it would
make me look a lot more carefully at the plane to see what else might have
been ignored.

....Scott


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I have been thinking about selling my pa28-235 for some time, but I
dread
the process. I understand why a buyer inexperienced with the model
would
want a prebuy inspection, and I respect that. But until I have a
check in
my hand, the plane is still mine and I am going to treat it as such.
Buyers
need to respect that.

Snip

I'll be happy to remove the inspection panels and
take off the cowl, and he can come LOOK at it in MY hanger. If
desired, he
can have a mechanic of his choice come and LOOK at it in my hangar.
But
while the plane is still mine, it is not going to the buyer's shop or
being
touched by the buyer's mechanic.

It's all a matter of degree. In Jack's case, the plane in question had
NOT complied with Service Bulletin 1006 (or at least I couldn't see it
in the logbooks) -- the "Big One" that addresses wing spar corrosion.
I'm assuming that Jack would have wisely required that this SB be
complied with, and the spar be checked, before or at the pre-buy.

This, of course, means removing the gas tanks -- a MAJOR operation on a
Cherokee -- pulling them forward and inspecting the spar. To comply
with the SB, you have to paint the spar with anti-corrosion goop, and
you might as well replace all the (probably original) fuel lines while
you're at it. None of this is cheap, and there is always the
opportunity to break, scratch or dent something in the process.

Was this the deal killer? Did the seller find someone dumb enough to
buy his plane *without* complying with this service bulletin? Dunno.
It's a major operation, and I wouldn't blame the seller for not wanting
to do it. On the other hand, any Cherokee that has sat outside for any
length of time -- and this one was parked on the ramp for a decade of
Illinois winters -- must comply with that SB, or (IMHO) it is a
completely unsellable aircraft.

So, Jack's search continues. Maybe you should sell him your 235, and
solve *everyone's* problems! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

("Jack Allison" wrote)
Hmmm, you wanna be my representative again Jay? We could go double or
nothing on dinner/beer at Friar tucks :-)


Dinner too?

This just keeps getting better and better g


Montblack

fwiw - it really bothers me that there being another potential buyer
could have
been a major factor (I'm not saying it was in fact, all we have is
Jay's
impression). Maybe it's just me, but if a seller takes a deposit and
starts
the sell/buy process with a buyer, then other potential buyers should
not
be a consideration.

You never know what other people are going to do. When my partners and
myself
were looking for a plane (which I still have), we followed up the ads
in the
LA Times one Saturday. The first plane wasn't what we were looking for,
so we continued on. As we were leaving a guy in a Cadillac showed up to
look at it.

The second plane was more like it - much newer, well equipped, and
reasonably
priced - Not that there weren't some maintenance questions to be
answered.
After we'd been there awhile and were discussing making an offer among
ourselves, the Cadillac guy shows up. Within no more than five minutes
and no more than
a few cursory glances over the plane, he's writing a check. Dunno if it
was
a deposit or full price - we walked away at that point.

David Johnson

Montblack wrote:
Dinner too?

This just keeps getting better and better g



Like I said before, Paul *who*? :-)


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student-Arrow Buying Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

I think you're right on, Scott. My feelings exactly.


"Scott" wrote in message
...
But until I have a check in
my hand, the plane is still mine and I am going to treat it as such.
Buyers
need to respect that.

...Scott