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bush: impossible to be AWOL /check TEXAS MILITARY CODE!



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 11th 04, 06:59 AM
Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default bush: impossible to be AWOL /check TEXAS MILITARY CODE!

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a
physical in my life.


You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.


:He didn't show
:up for duty as required, which can be interepreted as AWOL

False.

r as refusal to obey a direct order,

And who do you think issued this "direct order"? I suspect strongly
that you don't even know what those two words mean.

Do you idiots REALLY believe that this sort of silly lie does anything
other than demonstrate YOUR desperation?


Ads
  #2  
Old September 11th 04, 09:09 AM
Steve R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a
physical in my life.


You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.

snip

This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of
newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order
from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status
as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and
undergo a required physical exam.

CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its
experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic.

They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's
commanders in 1972 and 1973.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent
document examiner questioned the memos.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a
captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned
memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance
review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would
write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the
documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think
Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like
they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software.

Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic
Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th
Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the
two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after
reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona

She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word
software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure
from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic
criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities.

Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year
on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets.

He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air
Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period
in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush
went for six months without reporting for any training drills.

In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard
unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In
response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972.





  #4  
Old September 11th 04, 08:48 PM
Bob
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:09:41 GMT, "Steve R."
wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a
physical in my life.


You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.

snip

This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html


Now I suppose I should post all the links and text of the rebuttals of
the rebuttals.
  #5  
Old September 14th 04, 02:43 PM
Tammy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same
font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line
"111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the
1930s.

The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again.

And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the
memos is inaccurate.

And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the
Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to
Massachusetts).

"Steve R." wrote in message news:[email protected]
"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a
physical in my life.


You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.

snip

This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of
newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an order
from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his status
as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and
undergo a required physical exam.

CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its
experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic.

They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's
commanders in 1972 and 1973.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent
document examiner questioned the memos.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a
captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an unsigned
memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance
review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would
write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes the
documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think
Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in 1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked like
they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software.

Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic
Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th
Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as the
two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after
reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley, Arizona

She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft Word
software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under pressure
from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of Democratic
criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities.

Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush denies.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a year
on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets.

He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the Air
Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial period
in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972, Bush
went for six months without reporting for any training drills.

In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard
unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In
response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972.

  #6  
Old September 14th 04, 05:50 PM
Steve R.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Tammy" wrote in message
m...
Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same
font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line
"111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the
1930s.

The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again.

And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the
memos is inaccurate.

And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the
Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to
Massachusetts).


Hi Tammy,
Check out this thread and go for the $10,000 reward if you can duplicate
the memos on a machine from that time period!
http://defeatjohnjohn.com/2004/09/10...-selectric.htm
Regards,
Steve


  #7  
Old September 16th 04, 03:33 PM
John
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Mitchell Holman wrote:
Fred J. McCall wrote in
:


Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take a
physical in my life.



And what would happen if a current Guard
pilot serving in Iraq grounded himself by not
taking a scheduled flight physical?





Simple. He's grounded, removed from flight status, and either relaesed
from active duty, or re-assigned to another job. Any pilot or
crewmwmber may voluntarily quit flying as a crewmwmber at any time.
Flying duty is a volunteer hazardous duty, the same as parachute jump
status, explosive ordnance disposal, and diving.
  #9  
Old September 20th 04, 03:27 PM
Theecmo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MANG duty in a non-drilling status?
If so, wouldn't that mean he didn't report to anybody?

As for the th's and st's and character spacing, I am forced to go by the
myriad of experts and not one of them I have heard says these were common on
a "typewriter" in the 30's. Now, I know they were used in typesetting, but
on a typewriter? Please provide links to back up your assertions.


"Tammy" wrote in message
m...
Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same
font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line
"111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the
1930s.

The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again.

And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the
memos is inaccurate.

And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the
Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to
Massachusetts).

"Steve R." wrote in message

news:[email protected]
"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take

a
physical in my life.

You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.

snip

This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of
newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an

order
from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his

status
as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and
undergo a required physical exam.

CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its
experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic.

They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's
commanders in 1972 and 1973.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent
document examiner questioned the memos.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a
captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an

unsigned
memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance
review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would
write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes

the
documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think
Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in

1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked

like
they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software.

Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic
Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th
Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as

the
two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after
reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley,

Arizona

She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft

Word
software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under

pressure
from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of

Democratic
criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities.

Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush

denies.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a

year
on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets.

He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the

Air
Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial

period
in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972,

Bush
went for six months without reporting for any training drills.

In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard
unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In
response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972.





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #10  
Old September 21st 04, 08:48 PM
Tammy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Theecmo" wrote in message ...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the MANG duty in a non-drilling status?
If so, wouldn't that mean he didn't report to anybody?

As for the th's and st's and character spacing, I am forced to go by the
myriad of experts and not one of them I have heard says these were common on
a "typewriter" in the 30's. Now, I know they were used in typesetting, but
on a typewriter? Please provide links to back up your assertions.


Well, the document that I posted
http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif which was released by the Bush
administration as proof that he served some of the time, does show the
"th" that the GOP hired "experts" claim didn't exist at the time. That
by itself proves the GOP hired "experts" are liars. I guess there is
no surprise there.

Here is a link to a USA today site with the "th".




IBM had proportional based fonts since 1941, according to IBM. See
http://www-1.ibm.com/ibm/history/history/year_1941.html

Times New Roman was designed in 1931. See here
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/linotype/times-roman/



There is an interesting analysis at
http://www.warblogging.com/archives/000912.php

"The first typewriter that used a proportional font was released prior
to the turn of the century.

More to the point, however, IBM released its first IBM Executive
typewriter model in 1941. Called the IBM Executive Model A, it was
IBM's first proportional electric typewriter. Three more IBM Executive
models were released over the course of the next several decades,
culminating in the IBM Executive Model D, which was released in the
early '70s.

While the IBM Executive was not as popular a typewriter model as the
IBM Selectric it was still widely used. IBM produced it for three
decades for a reason. "

also read

"Little Green Footballs claims to have reproduced the spacing,
formatting and other characteristics of one of the memos (the 18
August 1973 "CYA" memo) using Microsoft Word in its default settings.

LGF provides two screenshots to establish this, and claims that they
are "identical in every respect". This is actually not the case.

Even a cursory examination of the two examples shows that the baseline
of the superscript "th" in the original (60 Minutes) version is
aligned to be partially below the top of its neighboring letters. The
"t" midpoint is exactly at the top of the "7". In the case of the
Microsoft word version the top of the "t" aligns perfectly with the
top of the "7".

This inconsistency proves that the memorandum was not produced with a
default version of Microsoft Word. "

"By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized
characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an
effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation
that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional
spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series
typewriters."


There is probably no way to prove the documents are real, absent the
originals. There are a couple of points worth considering.

1. The "experts" hired by the right wing have been caught lying. The
proof that they have cited have been easily disproven.
2. The signitures has been authenticated.
3. The White House believes that the information contained within the
documents is accurate and has not refuted it.
4. The people in the best position to know about the information
contained within the documents have stated that the information is
truthfull and accurate.




"Tammy" wrote in message
m...
Of course, this document http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/doc10.gif
released by the White House as proof of Bush's service, has the same
font, same proportional spacing, and same "th" character (3rd line
"111th"). Not suprising since all three were in common use since the
1930s.

The Bush/GOP media machine is caught lying once again.

And Bush hasn't yet claimed that the information contained within the
memos is inaccurate.

And Bush hasn't claimed that he actually showed up for the
Masachusetts National Guard (where he transfered when he moved to
Massachusetts).

"Steve R." wrote in message

news:[email protected]
"Bob" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 02:09:39 GMT, Fred J. McCall
wrote:

Hugh Sedditt wrote:

:I do get it.

You're not even in the same country.

:He was ordered to take the physical.

Nope. He was SCHEDULED for a physical. I was never ORDERED to take

a
physical in my life.

You might want to read the new "memos." He was "ordered" according to
one of those.
snip

This has been said before in other threads, but what the heck.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/....ap/index.html

Authenticity of Bush Guard memos questioned
Friday, September 10, 2004 Posted: 4:21 PM EDT (2021 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Questions are being raised about the authenticity of
newly unearthed memos which asserted that George W. Bush ignored an

order
from a superior officer in the Texas Air National Guard and lost his

status
as a pilot because he failed to meet military performance standards and
undergo a required physical exam.

CBS, which reported on the memos on its "60 Minutes" program, said its
experts who examined the documents concluded that they were authentic.

They ostensibly were written by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, one of Bush's
commanders in 1972 and 1973.

But Killian's son, one of Killian's fellow officers and an independent
document examiner questioned the memos.

Gary Killian, who served in the Guard with his father and retired as a
captain in 1991, said he doubted his father would have written an

unsigned
memo which said there was pressure to "sugar coat" Bush's performance
review.

"It just wouldn't happen," he said. "No officer in his right mind would
write a memo like that."

The personnel chief in Killian's unit at the time also said he believes

the
documents are fake.

"They looked to me like forgeries," said Rufus Martin. "I don't think
Killian would do that, and I knew him for 17 years." Killian died in

1984.

Independent document examiner Sandra Ramsey Lines said the memos looked

like
they had been produced on a computer using Microsoft Word software.

Lines, a document expert and fellow of the American Academy of Forensic
Sciences, pointed to a superscript -- a smaller, raised "th" in "111th
Fighter Interceptor Squadron" -- as evidence indicating forgery.

Microsoft Word automatically inserts superscripts in the same style as

the
two on the memos obtained by CBS, she said.

"I'm virtually certain these were computer generated," Lines said after
reviewing copies of the documents at her office in Paradise Valley,

Arizona

She produced a nearly identical document using her computer's Microsoft

Word
software.

The Defense Department released Bush's pilot logs this week under

pressure
from a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by The Associated Press.

Bush's Vietnam-era Air National Guard service became a focus of

Democratic
criticism this week amid a flurry of new reports about his activities.

Democrats say Bush shirked his National Guard duties, a claim Bush

denies.

Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in 1968, serving more than a

year
on active Air Force duty while being trained to fly F-102A jets.

He was honorably discharged from the Guard in October 1973 and left the

Air
Force Reserves in May 1974.

The first four months of 1972 are at the beginning of a controversial

period
in Bush's Guard service. After taking his last flight in April 1972,

Bush
went for six months without reporting for any training drills.

In September 1972 he received permission to transfer to an Alabama Guard
unit so he could work on a political campaign there.

That May, Bush also skipped a required yearly medical examination. In
response, his commanders grounded Bush on August 1, 1972.





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 




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