Moving violation..NASA form?

Orval Fairbairn wrote
Yes -- a lot of countries -- European, especially, have the req
to contact tower BEFORE engine start! It is a really stupid reg,
and can play real havoc with the electronics, if you have a
voltage spike due to releasing the starter button after the
engine fires.

This req epitomizes the stupidity of non-aviators making the
rules!

A very narrow point of view. I found it very frustrating to fire-up
all four engines, push back from the jetway, unhook the tug, call
Ground Control for taxi only to be told that there was a 45 min
hold on all West bound departures. That's what brought about the
rule.

Bob Moore

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:07:43 -0800, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Nasir" wrote in message
.com...
|
| I had done a stop and go during my long x-country and while departing out
of
| the class D, I requested permission to change frequency. I was rather
| bluntly told that I dont need permission.

No, you do not need permission. It is courteous to inform the tower that you
are changing frequencies. The guy who barked at you is a jerk. He will not
be the last one of those you will run into, either.


While I was in training, I noticed that the tower would ask us where
we were going at some point after the initial contact following engine
start, if we didn't say so ourselves. Then when we took off, the CFI
would always tell the tower when we had departed the Class D airspace.
Depending on where we were going, cross country or just local for
maneuvering training, the tower would either approve a frequency
change or just thank us for informing him that we were departing the
class D space.

When I flew solo, and later after I got my PPL, I continued to inform
the tower when I departed it's airspace. Haven't flown into any
really busy airports though. Well I take that back, Portland is a
"busy" airport and we did not tell them when we departed their class C
space. The one I trained at isn't normally really busy.

Corky Scott

On Tue, 04 Nov 2003 17:24:36 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Orval Fairbairn wrote
Yes -- a lot of countries -- European, especially, have the req
to contact tower BEFORE engine start! It is a really stupid reg,
and can play real havoc with the electronics, if you have a
voltage spike due to releasing the starter button after the
engine fires.

This req epitomizes the stupidity of non-aviators making the
rules!

A very narrow point of view.

But it is a point of view consistent with GA aspect of the newsgroup
charter:

The charter of rec.aviation.piloting is:


************************************************** **************************
* Information pertinent to pilots of general aviation aircraft
* which would not fall into one of the other non-misc
* rec.aviation groups. Topics include, but are not limited to
* flying skills, interesting sights, destinations, flight
* characteristics of aircraft, unusual situations, handling
* emergencies, working with air traffic control, international
* flights, customs and immigration, experiences with ground
* support facilities, etc.

************************************************** **************************

I found it very frustrating to fire-up
all four engines, push back from the jetway, unhook the tug, call
Ground Control for taxi only to be told that there was a 45 min
hold on all West bound departures. That's what brought about the
rule.

That's interesting information.

Mr. Fairbairn's argument against radio contact with the tower before
engine start implies that it is not possible to disconnect the
electronic equipment from the electrical bus before starting the
engine(s). I have not encountered aircraft with such a limitation.

It tends to be individual airfields here as far as puddlejumpers
are concerned (here = UK). I guess RAF places have it, I think
Bristol has that requirement (trying to be a big airport and discourge
GA), and I was up in Swansea the other day and heard others
calling for startup. I didn't bother and the tower didn't complain!

Maybe it'll be mentioned in the next AFE/Pooleys.

Oh, and just because you have to have your radio on to call
them doesn't mean you have to keep it on while starting the
engine! In places like Tampa, you call for clearance (or I do
anyway) before you start up.

Paul

"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message
news ...
Yes -- a lot of countries -- European, especially, have the req to
contact tower BEFORE engine start! It is a really stupid reg, and can
play real havoc with the electronics, if you have a voltage spike due to
releasing the starter button after the engine fires.

This req epitomizes the stupidity of non-aviators making the rules!

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 6...
A very narrow point of view. I found it very frustrating to fire-up
all four engines, push back from the jetway, unhook the tug, call
Ground Control for taxi only to be told that there was a 45 min
hold on all West bound departures. That's what brought about the
rule.

You're saying they wrote a rule to force pilots to act toward their own
convenience?

Forgive me if I'm skeptical.

It's true that it's possible to start up an engine (or four) without having
the radios on, even if contact with ATC is required prior to engine start.
But to claim that a rule was created *forcing* contact with ATC before
engine start *because* there was a perceived need to not inconvenience
pilots seems a little bit of a stretch.

Pete

"Peter Duniho" wrote

You're saying they wrote a rule to force pilots to act toward
their own convenience?

No Peter, they wrote the rule to keep 25-30 aircraft at the
"hub" push time at the gate and off the ramps and taxiways.


Bob

"Robert Moore" wrote in message
. 8...
No Peter, they wrote the rule to keep 25-30 aircraft at the
"hub" push time at the gate and off the ramps and taxiways.

How does the rule accomplish that? Wouldn't it make more sense to write a
rule that requires an aircraft to stay put and leave the question of engine
start up to the pilot? How does requiring contact with the tower prior to
engine start prevent an aircraft from being towed by a tug?

In places like Tampa, you call for clearance (or I do
anyway) before you start up.


IFR I always call for my clearance before starting up. If there's a routing
problem or delay, I don't want the hobbs meter running while it's sorted out.

Jose

--
(for Email, make the obvious changes in my address)

"Teacherjh" wrote in message ...

IFR I always call for my clearance before starting up. If there's a routing
problem or delay, I don't want the hobbs meter running while it's sorted out.

I just had the hobbs meter removed.

On 11/3/03 3:35 PM, in article
, "John Galban"
wrote:

My local tower has requested that pilots "go quietly" from the class
D and not request frequency change unless they are still within the
class D boundary. It cuts down on unnecessary radio clutter during
busy periods.


That's interesting. Where I learned to fly (ITH), the tower controllers
routinely instructed pilots to "report clear of the Class D airspace."
Diff'rent strokes, I guess.