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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
I want to build a Weddell-Williams racer. The #121 Gilmore Red Lion
version. Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for it? I'm just finishing my present homebuilt and need a new project. |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
Ted
Try looking for the following Museum in LA if Katrina didn't demolish it? They might have some plans but probably most of the birds of that era were hand built, one each cut to fit. `````````````````````````````````````````````````` ````````````````````````` Wedell-Williams "Red Lion" Jimmie Wedell and Harry Williams formed an air service in Patterson, Louisiana in 1928, but went on to become nationally prominent during what was known as the Golden Age of Aviation. They won numerous races, but both eventually perished in plane crashes. The Red Lion was one of their most famous planes. The Wedell-Williams Museum was established by the Louisiana state legislature as the state's official aviation museum. `````````````````````````````````````````````````` Big John ************************************************** ********** On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 22:05:36 -0500, Ted wrote: I want to build a Weddell-Williams racer. The #121 Gilmore Red Lion version. Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for it? I'm just finishing my present homebuilt and need a new project. |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 17:03:34 -0600, Big John
wrote: Ted Try looking for the following Museum in LA if Katrina didn't demolish it? They might have some plans but probably most of the birds of that era were hand built, one each cut to fit. ````````````````````````````````````````````````` `````````````````````````` Wedell-Williams "Red Lion" Jimmie Wedell and Harry Williams formed an air service in Patterson, Louisiana in 1928, but went on to become nationally prominent during what was known as the Golden Age of Aviation. They won numerous races, but both eventually perished in plane crashes. The Red Lion was one of their most famous planes. The Wedell-Williams Museum was established by the Louisiana state legislature as the state's official aviation museum. ````````````````````````````````````````````````` ` Big John I got a note from Jim Kimbell in Florida, who informed me that the one they built was basically a "napkin" airplane. So it seems the ones that have been built since the golden age had to be designed all over again to look like the original. A daunting task indeed. A set of plans would be nice to get a hold of, but there are those out in the field that can self-engineer a plane like that. But the cost is astronomical. Us do-it-yourselfers are stuck tyring to settle on the structure design independently. From the research I've done, the Weddell-Williams racers weren't as dangerous as the Gee Bees. But they are no short field airplanes either. |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
You might get outlines and idea from model airplanes, both plastic and
radio control. John |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:34:59 -0600, John T wrote:
You might get outlines and idea from model airplanes, both plastic and radio control. John Replicas have been built. See Sport Aviation, April 1991, March 1991, Feb.,1998 and Nov. 1993 |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
Replicas have been built. See Sport Aviation, April 1991, March 1991, Feb.,1998 and Nov. 1993 Fortunately, I have that cd set of sport aviation. I've been reading the stories by Budd Davidson about the building of the Weddell-Williams racer. I had remembered in the back of my mind reading those articles, but couldn't remember where I had read them. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. So it seems drawings do exist. somewhere. |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
You might try contacting the NASM in Washington D.C. The archives division
may well have the original drawings, specs or notes for these airplanes if ant exist. Dave "Ted" wrote in message ... I want to build a Weddell-Williams racer. The #121 Gilmore Red Lion version. Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for it? I'm just finishing my present homebuilt and need a new project. |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
"Ted" wrote in message .. . I want to build a Weddell-Williams racer. The #121 Gilmore Red Lion version. Does anyone know where I can get a set of plans for it? I'm just finishing my present homebuilt and need a new project. You might research the articles in Sport Aviation. The exact replica according to the test pilot Carl Pascarelli (or something like that) it was a bit of a handful. Ed Sullivan |
#9
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
Three replica model 44 Wedell-Williams aircraft were started at the
same time in the 1970's. These were being built by A North Carolina man with design work by another guy. #44 was completed first and #121 was about half done later to be owned and completed by a man in the northeast with final details done at our shop. #92 never progressed beyond a basic fuselage frame I think. The #44 replica was a handful to as mentioned in this thread. However, the original was not so bad according to records. Keep in mind that these replicas were not accurate. Many, many changes were made by the designer and builder for various reasons. The cockpits was raised, landing gear moved, wing airfoil changed, thicker wing, longer wing, larger tail feathers are some of the changes. Others include simply over building creating a very heavy airplane. The red and black one ended up with a very aft, that is way aft, CG problem as well as the wing was set at a lower than designed incedence. These things made it very hard to fly along with the shape changes. So, after it was damaged by hurricane Andrew, it was rebuilt to get it to a proper CG and was found to be quite nice to fly. The #121 replica used a different method of CG change. Put a bigger engine on it, bigger yet tail and thicker wings. That too worked. But in both cases, the airplanes are not true to form model 44 Wedell-Williams airplanes. They are homebuilts that are similar is shape and paint job. I have often wanted to replicate a Wedell accurately as we did on our Gee Bee replica. When we built the Gee Bee, many people told us to change this or that. No one will know. However, we decided to build it as close to original as we could determine just as Youngkin did with his replicas and Delmar and Steve with their R2. We ended up with a great flying airplane and learned what a Gee Bee Z was instead of learning what a spezio tuholer with a replica paint job was like. My personal favorite form of WW racer is the Utican which was #92 later in life. All white and had nice fairings. If I were approached to build a WW, this is the one I would go after. I suggest contacting the WW museum in Patterson, LA. It is located just feet from where all the WW airplanes were born. A visit there would be a big help in your quest for WW info as they have replicas of the airplanes there. http://lsm.crt.state.la.us/wedellex.htm I think the replica 121 is currently in Kissimmee, FL at Tom Riley's. You can visit it there. Another suggestion is to visit the Crawford Museum in Cleveland. There you can see the original #121 as it still exists. It is in the later form of #57 but it is the actual airplane. By visiting these places and seeing the replicas and then seeing the real thing in Ohio, you will be able to note the many changes that were made. As it turns out, the boys back then wern't as dumb as some would have you think. The airplanes worked, were fast and made money. One last note before I end this long post. Be prepared to spend about $150k in parts and materials to build a WW plus about 6000 hours of labor if you do find enough data to build one. Engineering costs would be additional to that number. Happy holidays to you all. Kevin |
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Weddell-Williams racer #121 Gilmore Red Lion
"Ed Sullivan" wrote You might research the articles in Sport Aviation. The exact replica according to the test pilot Carl Pascarelli (or something like that) it was a bit of a handful. If that were so, and someone really wanted to build one, there always is the possibility of taming it a little. That is assuming that the person is not an exact scale kind of nut. Add a little to the fin, and lengthen the wings a little, and maybe make it a little thicker, too. Get the CG a little more forward, if that is a problem. (like it is in many golden racers) If the changes are done in relatively small percentage changes, most will still recognize it, and few will notice any difference. -- Jim in NC |
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