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#191
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Jay Honeck wrote:
Imagine trying to know Step One to learning to fly, just by standing in your airport terminal building. Terminal building? No terminal I ever saw had anything to do with flight training. That's where you go to get on an airliner. Been that way as long as I've been above ground. It's intimidating as hell, even at most uncontrolled fields. At a Class C airport, you might as well be trying to break into Area 51. No around here. Here, the FBO sees dollar signs as soon as someone walks in the door. They fall over their tongues to show you around. Without a mentor, most new pilots never get started. We've made airports so inaccessible that flying has become like some sort of priesthood, where you must be inducted into it by the Elders. I don't know anyone who got started by a mentor. In fact, I see exactly the opposite. At every social occassion I attend, I get introduced to several people who have their certificate. Many (maybe most) have quit flying, usually because of family considerations. It's just not that hard to get a certificate. What's hard is to stay enthusiastic about sinking $5,000 or more each year into boring holes in the air over New Jersey. The thing that will kill GA is urban sprawl. It just isn't pretty looking down at horizon-to-horizon condos. Especially if they're built on top of what used to be a small airport. Even if the *do* name the complex "Airport Acres." George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. |
#192
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"George Patterson" wrote Terminal building? No terminal I ever saw had anything to do with flight training. That's where you go to get on an airliner. Been that way as long as I've been above ground. HKY (Hickory NC) has a really nice general aviation terminal. It is there to serve people picking up a charter or business flight, and also serves a the home of rentals and flight training. I guess you are simply unaware of terminals of this type. ;-) -- Jim in NC |
#193
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Morgans wrote:
HKY (Hickory NC) has a really nice general aviation terminal. Been through HKY twice. They called that an FBO. George Patterson There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes. |
#194
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"George Patterson" wrote Been through HKY twice. They called that an FBO. How about that! How recently? Yes, FBO fits, but I think terminal also fits, don't you? Had you been through a couple years ago, what they had then, was a far cry from the facility they have now. Delta is beginning regional jet service, starting in May. The main runway is closed for paving, now. I hope they are able to make it a money making success. This area could use some good commercial connections. -- Jim in NC |
#195
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Jay,
FWIW, I agree with you. It is either intimidating or extremely repelling for someone used to smooth, customer-oriented business practices to walk into the average FBO. The likelyhood is high that either the place looks run-down and ratty, or it is full of testosterone-oozing young males full of themselves. I have the feeling this is changing and the number of friendly, customer-oriented schools is on the rise, but at many places, things are not easy for a newcomer. -- Thomas Borchert (EDDH) |
#196
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Highflyer wrote:
A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin. There are aircraft which go into a spiral dive after a couple of turns, so be sure to know the spin characteristics fo yours before attempting a spin in IMC. Stefan |
#197
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Highflyer wrote:
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message . com... Way back in the 30s, some pilots would spin through an overcast and then recover underneath in the clear. Unless the ceiling was 200', that is. Can you imagine? Open cockpit, rain spraying you and there you go into an intentional spin into the merk. Must have had huge balls and tiny brains.... Edgar Bergen was a cousin once removed. I feel like I am talking to a member of the family! Actually those pilots did indeed have a lot of courage, but certainly NOT tiny brains. Just the opposite. Remember, they did NOT have gyro instruments. While it is possible, if you are EXTREMELY careful, to make in instrument letdown through an overcast with only a magnetic compass, a steady foot, good trim and courage it is a lot easier to put the airplane in a stable condition that will lose altitude quickly. Most of those airplanes would pop out of a spin in a quarter turn or less and lose no more than two or three hundred feet while doing it. A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin. Most of those early airplanes would lose less than 400 feet per turn and the airspeed would never get over about 90 mph while in a spin. An inadvertent spiral is the most likely outcome from trying to fly instruments without any and that will allow the airspeed to build up well over Vne. If you attempt to jerk the airplane out of a high speed spiral when you see ground rapidly approaching you will probably pull the wings off. Prompt recovery from a spin will leave you wings level and only slightly faster than normal cruise airspeed allowing you to find a field and put the darn thing down. Compared to the available alternatives at the time, spinning through the overcast was actually one of the safest options available and actually pretty hard to mess up by sloppy piloting. :-) Letting down with only a magnetic compass is a LOT trickier, albeit possible. Do not practice this alone or in a real overcast! In the northern hemisphere turn to a heading of 180 degrees. Trim the airplane for best glide speed and adjust the throttle for a descent rate not to exceed 500 fpm with 300 probably somewhat safer. Remove you hands from the controls and SIT ON THEM. :-) Carefully, using you feet, nudge the magnetic compass back to the big "S" whenever it begins to stray out of the window. Nudge it gently because it is wiggly as all get out. If your airspeed remains constant, taken care of with the trim only, and you heading does not change, you must be flying straight. If you fly straight and continue a steady and reasonable descent you will descend in a straight course and eventually wind up below the overcast with a controllable descent rate. Of course, if the hilltops extend up into the clouds you may fly into something hard and unyielding before you see the ground below you. Both of these techniques do work. I can attest to that personally, because if they had not, I wouldn't be writing this today. I do not recommend these if you have gyros available. However, I have been trapped where I had to make an "instrument" letdown or climbout when flying in an antique airplane that had no electrical system and no gyros of any kind. Not fun, not real safe, but certainly doable by a properly trained pilot. The latter doesn't work in rough air, whereas, a spining descent will. So, as you say, the old-time pilots were actually using their brains rather well in making a spinning descent through an impenetrable overcast. Matt |
#198
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Jay Honeck wrote:
I agree 100% that a pilot should learn to use EVERYTHING in the panel. But does this specialized knowledge need to be tested on the Private written exam? Are there questions about using audio panels on the Private written? Intercoms? Auto pilots? If APs or Audio Panels were sufficiently standard, they might appear. VORs are sufficiently standard. The idea is to save expense and time, I'd think. Testing on a written is cheaper for everyone involved than testing in the air (ie. a checkride). [...] I would contend that in the year 2005 navigation via VORs rests squarely in the "optional knowledge" category, and should not be on the Private written. Even when victor airways were "the" way to navigate, plenty still got by with eyes, maps, and clocks. So, in theory, VORs have *always* been optional. Apparently, that's not sufficient to keep them off. - Andrew |
#199
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Lakeview Bill wrote:
So tonight, thousands of little heads will hit pillows in our city, with the little kids dreaming their dreams of owning Glocks or Uzis, instead of dreaming of owning a 172 or a Warrior. More money for local police. - Andrew |
#200
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George Patterson writes:
Jay Honeck wrote: It's intimidating as hell, even at most uncontrolled fields. At a Class C airport, you might as well be trying to break into Area 51. No around here. Here, the FBO sees dollar signs as soon as someone walks in the door. They fall over their tongues to show you around. I agree, at both FBOs (in NJ) I've trained at once you get in the door they're very eager to tell anyone with that lost look about learning to fly. Without a mentor, most new pilots never get started. We've made airports so inaccessible that flying has become like some sort of priesthood, where you must be inducted into it by the Elders. I don't know anyone who got started by a mentor. I assume what Jay means is potential new pilots...ones that never even started flight training. Like others, I'm sure, until my mid 20's it never even occurred to me that I _could_ become a GA pilot. I don't think I'm alone in this because I have talked to at least three people who are considering flight training who never would have if I didn't tell them I was taking lessons (and this is before I've taken anyone up for a ride). There are probably lots of potential pilots we've lost this way. I don't know if mentoring is the way to fix this or not, and the PP written is probably way down on the list of things I'd change about GA, but....what were we talking about again? Dan. -- PGP key at http://www.longhands.org/drg-pgp.txt Key Id:0x507D93DF |
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