Need recommendation on accelerated IFR courses

Folks !

I am planing to get my IFR ticket. preferably in one of accelerated programs.
I have read about a few but I am still looking for one where they take you
on a cross-country ride to say west-coast or Alaska (I am in east) and you
don't shoot same approach twice. AT the end of the trip you take your
checkride. Do you know of such a course ? How do they compare to ones
that remain local ?

thank you,

-Sanjay Kumar

Saw this one in an article I believe. Sorry, can't recall which publication.
http://www.dsflight.com/

Marco Leon

"Sanjay Kumar" wrote in message
...
Folks !

I am planing to get my IFR ticket. preferably in one of accelerated
programs.
I have read about a few but I am still looking for one where they take you
on a cross-country ride to say west-coast or Alaska (I am in east) and you
don't shoot same approach twice. AT the end of the trip you take your
checkride. Do you know of such a course ? How do they compare to ones
that remain local ?

thank you,

-Sanjay Kumar

Jack Cunniff wrote:
http://www.ifrwest.com

I don't think I've heard of any other, and this is a very well-known one.


It looks pretty nice but they want $7500 for six day adventure... and that's if
you're already rated... just not current. I didn't bother looking to see what
it might cost if you're starting from scratch. BTW, you only fly half the time;
it gets shared with another student. I doubt you'll get over 20 hours actual
time on the controls over the 6 days.

I could buy 60 hours of straight dual here in the Carolinas for the same money.
And most IFR panels look pretty much like any other when you get down to it. On
the "Alaskan Adventure" only the nonflying student and the instructor get to
enjoy the view.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

Sanjay,

but I am still looking for one where they take you
on a cross-country ride


Well, accelerated and cross country probably don't go together that
well. Flying IFR enroute isn't the hard thing to learn about the
rating, so you're bound to waste some time during the long portions of
the flights.

You can see that from the fact that the cross country courses have
advance training requirements.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

I could buy 60 hours of straight dual here in the Carolinas for the same
money.

Ah, but can you buy a few days of travel with a CFII?

A friend of mine did one of those accelerated IFR rating courses, which left
me somewhat worried. But he almost immediately followed it with one of
these multiday "IFR XC" trips. From his description, that addressed many
of the deficiencies of the "rush to rating" approach.

[It also sounded like a lot of fun.]

Also, don't knock the educational value of right-seat time. The pressure is
off, leaving one more free to listen, consider, compare...

- Andrew

I am planing to get my IFR ticket. preferably in one of accelerated
programs. I have read about a few but I am still looking for one where
they take you on a cross-country ride to say west-coast or Alaska
(I am in east) and you don't shoot same approach twice. AT the end
of the trip you take your checkride. Do you know of such a course ?

AFAIK no such course exists. The ones that teach IFR flying on long XC
flights generally require that you already have a significant amount of
instrument time (some require you to be rated). None are geared
towards the checkride.

There is a reason for this. The goal of the program is not to get you
ready for a checkride in minimum time. If that were the goal, the way
to go would be to go to some place with great weather, fly every day
(maybe twice a day) strictly under the hood (no actual), hit the local
approaches hard (and don't go further from home than the DE will be
willing to go), make only the one required XC flight, and take the
checkride immediately. If what you want is a piece of paper rather
than the ability to safely make flights you can't make VFR, this is the
way to go. Fast and cheap.

The purpose of a long range XC flight is very different - it exposes
you to a variety of conditions (different approaches, ATC facilities,
weather, geography) to maximize your preparation for actually using the
rating.

So what is your goal?

Michael

Sanjay,
Check this thread where I posted links to IFR accelerated training
reports

http://groups-beta.google.com/group/...e=source&hl=en

Few months ago, I were considering several accelerated training
options with special considerations to DSFI's East Coast trip or
Morey's West Coast trip. We thought it would be a great thing to
combine IFR training with mountain flying and cross-country experience.

I did a Wings training course with Doug Stewart who ran the East
Coast trip and took an introductory IFR training flight with Bill
Zaleski. I was impressed with both instructors, but decided to sign up
with Bill for several reasons: First, as someone had pointed out in
this thread, while you do learn quite a bit in the enroute IFR phase,
the long travelling time does reduce your opportunities to shoot
approaches. Secondly, to go with Doug, we would either have to use his
plane (with a Stormscope) or to add in-flight weather information to
our plane. Either option will add to the cost of the training. Lastly,
Bill happened to have a slot for us right away vs waiting several
months for Doug. We may take short version of the EastCoast trip with
Doug next year as an IFR refresher and to get some mountain flying
time.

We were surprised that Bill thought we were ready after 5 days of
training. In the end, it took 7 days for the two of us. It is
expected that people are very skeptical of accelerated training course.
I would never have gone for one during primary training but instrument
training is a different story. Having seen the struggle my husband went
through with a 'traditional' IFR training, I am convinced that the
'cram' IFR course is a very effective way of learning.

If you read several threads on IFR training, you will see some
people advocate getting some VFR flying experience, doing a lot of long
cross country trips etc. prior to starting IFR training. Both my
husband and I each had over 100hrs x-country (50nm) time prior to
taking the course. We had also prepared for the course by taking the
written exam, reading many books, practicing on the simulator and
getting some hoodtime serving as each other's safety pilot. This
preparation compensated for the fact that we were not 'natural' flyers.
While we made some mistakes during our training and the checkrides, we
felt the course prepared us well for the real world of IFR flying. We
did a long IFR x-country trip (NY-MI-IL-NY) a month after passing the
checkrides and plan to embark on a longer one (NY-MI-MN-C0-NY) in few
weeks. With lots of preparation, we hope that the two of us will have
a fun but unevenful trip ;-)

Hai Longworth

"Thomas Borchert" wrote

Well, accelerated and cross country probably don't go together that
well. Flying IFR enroute isn't the hard thing to learn about the
rating, so you're bound to waste some time during the long portions of
the flights.

I suppose someone could invent a cross country course that had you landing
at multitudes of airports, all close together, while going across the
country. A new record for numbers of landings while going across the
country? g
--
Jim in NC

I did the IFR West Coast Adventure in Februrary 2005.

I had to fly in from Japan to do it. As such, I didn't even have the
25-odd-hours of basic training done before I got here, so I got a
surprise email from Field Morey, the father of the program: "You come
out to Medford and spend a week with me, and I'll make sure you're
ready for the course."

I spent a week doing approaches and planning and all the stuff people
on this thread are talking about. Field is an amazing instructor, and
things came fast and easy. The following week I headed for Wisconsin
where the WCA starts and ends.

It is a misconception that, since it's not all approaches and holds and
such, the course it not up to par. Not all of IFR flying is about the
little fiddly bits. It takes a very short period of time to learn to
do all the approaches into your home airport. My partner and I
averaged 3 approaches a day during the course, and found that just
getting the airplane from point A to point B requires some thought as
well. I now have no qualms about planning a flight into a strange
airport, asking the right questions, doing the right research, and just
getting out in the clag and doing it. Admittedly, I finished the
course with 20 hours logged on the WCA, but I also got to watch my
partner do his flying as well, with the benefit of not being under
pressure at the time. It's a good experience, learning from the
mistakes of your partner.

Additionally, the WCA aircraft are in no way similar to the little
used-up 172 you're going to rent at the local FBO. These were the
best-maintained, most well-equipped aircraft I have had the opportunity
to fly. I can fly a Garmin 530 with aplomb, I'm comfortable with DME,
VORs, using the HSI, stormscope and NEXRAD. I've had the opportunity
to work with a couple types of autopilots. I see the merits of flying
a turbocharged aircraft, and I've set some personal minimum equipment
boundaries on flying into the clouds.

Bottom line, it ain't all about doing 600 approaches into the 3
airports around your home field. Given proper preparation for the WCA,
I can think of no better way to get your IFR rating.


Good luck in your decision.

Brian

wrote:
Not all of IFR flying is about the little fiddly bits. It takes a very
short period of time to learn to do all the approaches into your home
airport. My partner and I averaged 3 approaches a day during the
course, and found that just getting the airplane from point A to point B
requires some thought as well.

Good point. Witness the recent thread about the guy who's handoff to
Potomac Approach got refused. A lot of people on this group were acting
like being asked to "say intentions" when their flight-planned route turned
out to be unavailable was a major crisis.

Tooling around at 120 kts and 3000 AGL from one approach to another doesn't
involve much in the way of descent planning. Being at 8000 AGL (or more)
in a 180 kt airplane means if you're not thinking about the descent when
you're 50 miles out from your destination, you're already behind the
airplane.

Two hours of flying local approaches with 4 or 5 hours of fuel when you
took off doesn't make you think about performance much. Flying legs near
the endurance limit of the airplane (maybe to destinations where no fuel is
available) forces you to actually pay attention to power settings and
leaning and stuff like that, not to mention having to make real decisions
about accepting holds and reroutes.