Touch and Goes versus Full Stop Taxi Backs

You hand is on the throttle when you're landing. If something comes
into the runway, or you notice some other thing that makes you want to
abort the landing, are you saying you'd let the throttle go, reset the
flaps, then go back to the throttle?

I see touch and goes differently: they are landing practice, but they
are also 'abort the damned landing' practice too. When we (my ownership
partners and I) would safety check each other, we could often call for
a go-round deep in the flare or when on the ground rolling at less than
flying speed. We expected to see the throttle go in first, then worry
about cleaning up the airplane (the airplane being a Mooney).

Recently, ZikZak posted:

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce
bad habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract
flaps before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for
go-around procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned
using T&G's, and when asked to go around they almost always retract
flaps before adding power. This is very bad. My home field is
relatively short, too, so I don't do T&G's with my students.

It sounds like you are dealing with two different issues. Anyone properly
trained will not retract flaps when doing a go-around, regardless of
whether they practice T&Gs at other times. Perhaps during those BFRs, you
have just identified an area where the pilot needs to be reminded about
the difference between the two?

Neil

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no* T & G for student
solo.

Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like a great way to pad
the Hobbs time on the rental planes...

Dual, they will have you practice landings T & G pretty much right from
the beginning.... but the right seat always handles the flaps.

Interesting. I've never heard of a CFII working the flaps while the student
flew. However, having been in a "sinking Cessna" once, many moons ago,
after inadvertently retracting the flaps at full power, low altitude and low
airspeed, I suppose that may make some sense.

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In this order...
Power UP
Pitch UP
Flaps UP

My (fairly large) school has a blanket policy of *no*
T & G for student solo.

"Jay Honeck" wrote:
Maybe I'm just being cynical, but this sure sounds like
a great way to pad the Hobbs time on the rental planes...

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long. I'm not sure if
they insist on that throughout the training, but when they first start
soloing, they are not allowed to do T&Gs there.

Tony wrote, "... When we (my ownership partners and I) would safety check
each other, we could often call for a go-round deep in the flare or when on
the ground rolling at less than flying speed. We expected to see the
throttle go in first, then worry about cleaning up the airplane (the
airplane being a Mooney)."

I was taught: Cram it. Climb it. Clean it. Cool it. Call it.

Jon

In article ,
unicate wrote:

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long.

isn't that really a different issue? Regardless of the safety or danger
or T&G's in general, only having 1900' isn't really enough to do
T&G's in the typical cessna or piper anyway.

Several airports in MA prohibit T&G's and their runways are
around 2500'.

--
Bob Noel
no one likes an educated mule

Jay, at a large flight school in CA, they have the "no T&G for student
solo" rule also. It's not to pad the Hobbs time, it is a safety
precaution, because their runway is only 1900 feet long.

Bob Noel wrote:
isn't that really a different issue? Regardless of the safety or danger
or T&G's in general, only having 1900' isn't really enough to do
T&G's in the typical cessna or piper anyway.

It isn't?
When I was there, I flew their C152 with one of their CFIs, and all we
did was T&G landing practice ... 12 the first day, 14 the second. I
wouldn't say there was "plenty of room", but there WAS enough runway to
land, calmly roll out a bit and take off again.

ZikZak wrote:

On 9/15/05 4:32 PM, in article , "Matt
Whiting" wrote:


ZikZak wrote:

As a CFI, I don't like touch-and-goes because they tend to reinforce bad
habits. Specifically, during a touch-and-go, you need to retract flaps
before you add power. This is TERRIBLE reinforcement for go-around
procedures. I have often done BFRs for pilots who learned using T&G's, and
when asked to go around they almost always retract flaps before adding
power. This is very bad. My home field is relatively short, too, so I don't
do T&G's with my students.

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?

Matt


Because Cessna-172s don't take off very well with full flaps. I suppose you
could add power and then retract the flaps, but then you're rolling with
lots of drag and runway behind you is useless. In any case, it seems to be
conventional to retract-then-power when doing T&G's, and that produces bad
habits.


This is how I was taught. After the "touch", you first apply full power
to "go" and then retract the flaps. It really isn't hard at all to do.
It doesn't take long at all to get the flaps from 40 to 20, and
taking off with 20 isn't much of a problem. Anyone who can't manage
this, probably shouldn't be flying.

Matt

nrp wrote:

Why do you have to retract the flaps first when doing a T&G?


On a 172 you also beat the hell out of the flap structure when at full
power and 40 degrees down. If you are slow getting them up there is a
tendency to wheelbarrow too.


Only if you are a low-wing pilot. :-)

Matt