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Bush Flew Fighter Jets During Vietnam



 
 
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  #51  
Old July 10th 04, 06:12 PM
George Shirley
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Ron wrote:
One might also note the tour length for John Kerry. Do we see a trend
among political candidates to "fill the square" then leave?



Apparently there was a lot of that in Vietnam too. Just because someone went,
does not mean it was out of a nobel desire, many went for career progression
purposes. While Kerry was probably trying to emulate John Kennedy, others went
to Nam not for future political careers but to further their military career.

Heck Bush could have been sent to Vietnam (he did volunteer but was considered
too low time), and if he could have flown 50 missions and the Democrats would
be criticising him for not having flown 100, and that he would have not done so
because of his father and political influence.

Ron
PA-31T Cheyenne II
Maharashtra Weather Modification Program
Pune, India

Most grunts referred to officers "advancing their careers" by serving a
tour or part of a tour as "getting their ticket punched." Had to get a
least some combat time for advancement. Many officers were there because
that was the only war we had at the time and war means promotions,
officer or enlisted lifer.

George

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  #52  
Old July 10th 04, 06:42 PM
Ed Rasimus
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On 10 Jul 2004 17:04:36 GMT, (BUFDRVR) wrote:

Dan wrote:

He went through OTS


Actually the ANG calls it something different...at least they did in 1994 when
I went through UPT with 4 Guardsmen. Little did they know that they were
recieving special treatment. Please don't engage "Walt", he doesn't have a clue
about the military or aviation and as such is not worth your time. IMHO, "Walt"
is the worst troll I've seen here *ever*. At least Venik and the rest of the
"Serb loonies" were discussing aviation related matters....fantasy aviation,
but aviation none-the-less.


BUFDRVR


I was OPR at ATC-Hq from 1970-72 for "undergraduate rated assignments"
in ATC-Personnel. My office was responsible for all input to flying
training programs (UPT, UNT, UPT-H) and all graduate assignments into
the operational training pipeline. We also did the CONUS survival
school input (global at Fairchild, water at Homestead and the
"special" courses.)

We handled input from AFA, AFROTC, OTS (whether ANG, AFRES or
active-duty). That give me a bit of insight into the personnel
sequencing of pilot input during the period and the manning situation
during the drawdown period from SEA that has been in discussion.

As for feeding the trolls, I learned a long time ago that the value of
Usenet isn't in changing the mind of the trolls, but of providing
input and fact to the readers of the threads. No one is going to
communicate intelligently with Walt who simply regurgitates what he
gets from Terry McAuliffe and doesn't acknowledge being found wrong
regardless of how many people provide refutation. The statements of
fact are for the consideration of the lurkers who might otherwise find
their ideas forever corrupted with simplistic propaganda.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #53  
Old July 10th 04, 07:06 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

It's just neocon bitterness from a president and vice president who ever

went
to war when they damn well should have.


No American should have gone to that war.


  #54  
Old July 10th 04, 07:27 PM
D. Strang
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"WalterM140" wrote

Because unlike Gore
-or- Clinton, Senator Kerry served with distinction.


For 3 months.


  #55  
Old July 10th 04, 07:29 PM
Ed Rasimus
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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 18:06:51 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

It's just neocon bitterness from a president and vice president who ever

went
to war when they damn well should have.


No American should have gone to that war.


This just in. Breaking news. John Edwards didn't serve in Vietnam.
Where was he?

And, just now, I noticed the thread title. "Fighter Jets..."? The
airplanes are jet fighters. Or, simply just fighters. Or jets.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8
  #56  
Old July 10th 04, 07:34 PM
D. Strang
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"WalterM140" wrote
Probably not since OCS is Army, not Air Force.

Next you will be telling us he never went to UPT either.


Did not/does not the Air Force have some sort of equivalent to OCS? One that
prospective second lieutenants go through?


The closest thing would be OTS Officer Training School, but you had to have a
college degree to qualify for entry. The Army built their own officers by selecting
from the enlisted ranks. When I finished OCS I had only half of my college completed
(most from night school).
..
If we wanted to go career, we were told to have a degree before eligible for Captain.
No degree, hit the road, you were RIF'd



  #57  
Old July 10th 04, 07:39 PM
D. Strang
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"WalterM140" wrote

Senator Kerry is a decorated veteran.


He's also an admitted war criminal (before Congress in testimony) who
says he murdered innocent civilians, and unarmed soldiers.


  #58  
Old July 10th 04, 07:53 PM
Jack
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ArtKramr wrote:

It's just neocon bitterness from a president and vice president who ever went
to war when they damn well should have.


Your value (substantial) to the group rests primarily on your personal
experiences of military aviation in the WW2 era. Don't dilute that by OT
posts regarding your personal prejudices. We've all got 'em, and they
all stink.

--
Jack

"Cave ab homine unius libri"
  #59  
Old July 10th 04, 07:58 PM
Jack
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Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

No American should have gone to that war.


Wrong! No American should have been drafted to serve in SEA. The
professionals, with the proper leadership (read C in C), would have
produced quite a different outcome in far less time.

But then history may not agree with either of our claims.


--
Jack

"Cave ab homine unius libri"
  #60  
Old July 10th 04, 08:21 PM
D. Strang
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
"ArtKramr" wrote

It's just neocon bitterness from a president and vice president who ever
went to war when they damn well should have.


No American should have gone to that war.


I would disagree. While I agree the war was a failure, because the mission
was too broad: "Stop Communism." If the mission was to re-unify the country,
then we should never have cancelled the elections. The country was not a
threat to anyone, even as a Soviet client. Once we went defensive, the war
was over. The Vietnamese found out rather quickly that the Soviets were
worthless, and their relationship didn't last long after the war was over.


 




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