A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Home Built
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old November 25th 07, 11:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars

Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Parts http://www.behot.us
  #2  
Old November 26th 07, 01:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
BobR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 356
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas PoweredCars

On Nov 25, 4:34 pm, wrote:
Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Partshttp://www.behot.us


Before we jump from the frying pan into the fire how about some
analysis on rather an electric car is really efficient. Somehow I
can't believe it is more efficient and less poluting to generate the
electricity, transmit it long distances, store it and convert it back
to energy to drive a car than use direct conversion of gasoline to
energy. That doesn't even consider the long term enviromental impact
of dealing with the chemicals and heavy metals used in batteries.

  #3  
Old November 26th 07, 04:37 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
IO-540
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:34:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Parts
http://www.behot.us


I saw something on TV about that, they showed this guy who took older
small cars like Triumph Spitfires, and converted them to electric. And
they were nothing fancy, just glorified golf carts with more speed and
batteries. I'd love one for just getting around my area, especially
since I don't have to travel that far. I wonder how much it would cost
to charge one up after the batteries were depleted? I'll bet it's
cheaper than the gas would cost. It would doubt take a large bank of
deep cycle marine type batteries, which aren't cheap, but not all that
expensive either. They have them at Walmart for about the same as
start batteries for cars.
  #4  
Old November 26th 07, 04:43 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars


"IO-540" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:34:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Parts
http://www.behot.us


I saw something on TV about that, they showed this guy who took older
small cars like Triumph Spitfires, and converted them to electric. And
they were nothing fancy, just glorified golf carts with more speed and
batteries. I'd love one for just getting around my area, especially
since I don't have to travel that far. I wonder how much it would cost
to charge one up after the batteries were depleted? I'll bet it's
cheaper than the gas would cost. It would doubt take a large bank of
deep cycle marine type batteries, which aren't cheap, but not all that
expensive either. They have them at Walmart for about the same as
start batteries for cars.


Before trying a DIY car conversion, try a motorcycle. Converting a
motorcycle to electric is much easier, cheaper and generally more
successful.

Bill D


  #5  
Old November 26th 07, 05:21 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Harry K
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 153
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas PoweredCars

On Nov 26, 7:43 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"IO-540" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:34:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Partshttp://www.behot.us


I saw something on TV about that, they showed this guy who took older
small cars like Triumph Spitfires, and converted them to electric. And
they were nothing fancy, just glorified golf carts with more speed and
batteries. I'd love one for just getting around my area, especially
since I don't have to travel that far. I wonder how much it would cost
to charge one up after the batteries were depleted? I'll bet it's
cheaper than the gas would cost. It would doubt take a large bank of
deep cycle marine type batteries, which aren't cheap, but not all that
expensive either. They have them at Walmart for about the same as
start batteries for cars.


Before trying a DIY car conversion, try a motorcycle. Converting a
motorcycle to electric is much easier, cheaper and generally more
successful.

Bill D- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


When it comes to practical transporation, a motorcycle, scooter, etc.
ranks only slightly better than a bike. Maybe in the south where year-
round use is possible (although not comfortable in the winter) and if
you don't want to carry anything sizeable.

Harry K

  #6  
Old November 26th 07, 06:00 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Bill Daniels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 687
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars


"Harry K" wrote in message
...
On Nov 26, 7:43 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
"IO-540" wrote in message

...





On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 14:34:48 -0800 (PST),
wrote:


Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto
Partshttp://www.behot.us


I saw something on TV about that, they showed this guy who took older
small cars like Triumph Spitfires, and converted them to electric. And
they were nothing fancy, just glorified golf carts with more speed and
batteries. I'd love one for just getting around my area, especially
since I don't have to travel that far. I wonder how much it would cost
to charge one up after the batteries were depleted? I'll bet it's
cheaper than the gas would cost. It would doubt take a large bank of
deep cycle marine type batteries, which aren't cheap, but not all that
expensive either. They have them at Walmart for about the same as
start batteries for cars.


Before trying a DIY car conversion, try a motorcycle. Converting a
motorcycle to electric is much easier, cheaper and generally more
successful.

Bill D- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


When it comes to practical transporation, a motorcycle, scooter, etc.
ranks only slightly better than a bike. Maybe in the south where year-
round use is possible (although not comfortable in the winter) and if
you don't want to carry anything sizeable.

Harry K


Somewhat overstated, Harry.

I ride a 1000cc Kawasaki Concours sport touring bike in Colorado. It's 28
degrees outside right now and I plan to ride it to lunch adding only a
flight jacket and helmet.

Any temperature above freezing is comfortable once the engine warms up since
the engine heat is captured in a bubble behind the fairing. My feet stay
downright toasty. It's actually less comfortable in mid summer.

The two huge hardside luggage boxes easily hold a weeks clothing. I do 99%
of my shopping with the bike. My SUV rarely gets used.

My average is 60 MPG and with 7.5 gallons in the tank, that's a long ways
between fillups. Of course at 80 mph on the interstates, it's more like
47MPG.

I'd buy an electric motorcycle like the Vectrix Thrust in a heartbeat.
See:Http://www.bsmotoring.com/bsm/wcms/e...07-071123.html
(scroll down near the bottom of the page)

Bill D


  #7  
Old November 26th 07, 10:49 PM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Robert Bonomi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 50
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas PoweredCars

In article ,
BobR wrote:
On Nov 25, 4:34 pm, wrote:
Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Partshttp://www.behot.us


Before we jump from the frying pan into the fire how about some
analysis on rather an electric car is really efficient. Somehow I
can't believe it is more efficient and less poluting to generate the
electricity, transmit it long distances, store it and convert it back
to energy to drive a car than use direct conversion of gasoline to
energy. That doesn't even consider the long term enviromental impact
of dealing with the chemicals and heavy metals used in batteries.


To start with, an internal combustion engine is dreadfully inefficient
in and of itself. _Theoretical_ best for a gasoline engine is around 45%.
(real-world practical is 5-10% lower) Diesels do somewhat better with a
theoretical max at 56% (real-world in the high 40s)

'external' combustion, as used at large generating facilities hits over
90%, to the drive-shaft. 90-95% efficiency in the generator, plus 10-20%
losses in distribution. call it 85% in battery charging and 90% for the
drive motor. Taking all that into consideration, you're getting 50+% of
the energy of the generator plant fuel _to_the_wheels_ of the electric car.

This compares very favorably with auto gas engines, and is on a par with
the *best* diesels running at optimum -- which, in automotive applications
is -not- anywhere near 100% of the time.

Thus, electric gives a _relative_ 25-50% more power to the wheels than
internal combustion from the same amount of fuel.

This is somewhat offset by the greater weight of the batteries/motor(s)
vs the engine and gas tank of the IC vehicle.

All that said 20-33% more "system" efficiency for 'electric' -is- not an
unreasonable claim.`

There are major 'practical' issues of getting enough battery capacity to
have decent 'range', the length of time it takes to recharge, and the
power levels needed to recharge in a relatively short time.

There's an electric "sports car" on the market at the moment that needs
70A @240V for a quick-charge (a few hours) of it's batteries.

With typical house service being 100A @240v, that means you can't run
an electric stove, _or_ the air-conditioning while the car is charging.
  #8  
Old November 27th 07, 12:55 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Morgans[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,924
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars


"Robert Bonomi" wrote

With typical house service being 100A @240v, that means you can't run
an electric stove, _or_ the air-conditioning while the car is charging.


Where do you live?

Around here, a 200 amp service is minimum, by code, and has been for years.

That leaves plenty of power for the house.
--
Jim in NC


  #9  
Old November 27th 07, 03:22 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Charles Vincent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 170
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas PoweredCars

Morgans wrote:
"Robert Bonomi" wrote

With typical house service being 100A @240v, that means you can't run
an electric stove, _or_ the air-conditioning while the car is charging.


Where do you live?

Around here, a 200 amp service is minimum, by code, and has been for years.

That leaves plenty of power for the house.


I think 200 amp has been common since the 70's, 100amp since the 50's
and 60 amp before that. You would be surprised at how many homes are
out there with the old A-base style meters and sub 100amp service.....
  #10  
Old November 27th 07, 04:12 AM posted to rec.aviation.homebuilt
Roger (K8RI)
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 727
Default Electric Car Conversion Companies: Alternatives To Gas Powered Cars

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:40:15 -0800 (PST), BobR
wrote:

On Nov 25, 4:34 pm, wrote:
Electric cars are not an unrealistic space age creation. Electric
cars were created way back in the 1900s when gasoline was so expensive
that consumers could not afford to fill their vehicles. Sound
familiar? During this time period there were more electric cars on
the road than gas powered cars. Unfortunately, research into creating
electric cars as the mainstream vehicle was pushed aside when cheaper
ways to produce oil were found. So where can a consumer go to create
their own electric car? There are electric car conversion companies
willing to assist in this pursuit. Discount Auto Partshttp://www.behot.us


Before we jump from the frying pan into the fire how about some
analysis on rather an electric car is really efficient. Somehow I
can't believe it is more efficient and less poluting to generate the
electricity, transmit it long distances, store it and convert it back
to energy to drive a car than use direct conversion of gasoline to
energy. That doesn't even consider the long term enviromental impact
of dealing with the chemicals and heavy metals used in batteries.


Electric cars are more efficient than the regular variety, but... and
it's a big but. The all electrics are short range and not practical
for most of us, but for those with short drives they do have
sufficient range. So far, they are Expensive compared to regular cars.
Very expensive. Although they are efficient. The motors are more
like 95% which is great and even taking into account all the losses in
power generation and transmission they are more efficient than the gas
powered car, BUT (there's another one of those buts) even with that
increased efficiency they probably create considerably more pollution
than gas powered cars as most electricity is generated by coal fired
plants. Those plants release a lot of particulates, sulphur, CO2, and
Mercury through tall stacks that send the results to cities and states
down wind. In the end that power to power the electric car is more
polluting than the gas powered cars, or more so than most of them.
OTOH if most of the cars in our major cities were electric we'd see a
marked increase of air quality in those cities. OTOH if those cars
were small hybrids we'd also see an increase in the air quality.

Then there is the problem of getting electricity to the end user as
well as cost. Simply stated; we currently do not have the grid
capacity even in off hours to handle a substantial number of all
electric cars. So what happens if a lot of people go for the electric
car and we are short on grid capacity. Distributed power generation
using solar, wind, or what ever can help in many geographic areas, but
without more grid capacity those too are limited. Real time metering
and control of demand is on its way. Some areas already have it, but
with a continuing high demand you can expect to see rates get much
higher. Her in Michigan they run about 10 cents per KWh with all
charges while in California they peak around 38 cents. At 38 cents
per KWh it would be difficult to save money over the cost of running
an efficient hybrid.

On top of this are the batteries needed. Enough lead acid batteries to
give a reasonable range (just from the suburbs into town to shop)
would be expensive, very heavy, take up a lot of space, and are a
hazard on the roads due to transporting sulphuric acid. How long will
one heavy duty, deep cycle marine battery run a starter? Now kick
that up to moving the car and it's going to take a lot of batteries.

Even good high capacity battery packs such as Nickel Metal Hydride
(which also makes a good Hydrogen sponge) is expensive and no light
weight. Typical MiMH packs used in hybrids today run on the order of
$4,000 plus and they are sufficient only when used in conjunction with
a small gas engine. It's possible, but doubtful two packs ($8,000)
would manage 40 miles even in city driving.

Then there is the new Lithium family of batteries. They are powerful,
compact and lighter weight with reasonable life, but they are *really*
expensive.

BUT (had to say it again) the new technology batteries present a
disposal and/or recycling problem in addition to all the pollution
from the coal fired power plants.. They are not environmental friendly
but they haven't been around long enough to really see how this is
going to fly.

Also as soon as the technology becomes widespread the price of
electricity will raise enough for the all electric car to lose any
cost advantage. First in and First out (FIFO to borrow a computer
term) could save a lot if they weren't so expensive to implement.
Unfortunately when they drive up the price it will be a higher price
we all have to pay just to turn on the lights.

The side effects of many going to all electric would probably have a
greater effect on the cost of living then using a lot of corn to make
alcohol will on the food chain.

Hydrogen takes even more energy to produce.

All-in-all there is no one technology that can have much more than a
small effect as far as helping the economy and environment. Like the
energy efficient home that uses a mix of active and passive solar
energy along with the power mains/natural gas and even uses the gray
water instead of dumping it down the sewer, we are going to have to
combine technologies along with learning how to conserve. Currently
the best answer by far is the hybrid and learning how to conserve.

Roger (K8RI)
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I know there are electric powered sailplanes but YouHelpBuild.com Soaring 12 November 19th 07 02:57 PM
Solar Electric Powered Aircraft Larry Dighera Piloting 33 November 6th 05 09:37 PM
Solar Electric Powered Aircraft Larry Dighera Soaring 31 November 6th 05 09:37 PM
Is a Turn Coordinator an electric motor or powered by fan? kickinwing Piloting 5 June 11th 05 12:25 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:20 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.