Ultralight motors?

Anthony W wrote:

dje wrote:
http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises, 102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony


Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess with
mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 103
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?
John

wrote:


Richard Lamb wrote:
110 pounds for engine dry weight is WAY too heavy, Pat.

Not that it's to heavy for an 85 hp engine (it's not bad at all)

BUT..
FAR103.7 dictates an empty wet (for the entire airplane) as 254 pounds.
So 110 pounds for the engine is completely out of the question.

I've thought about building another Texas Parasol - as light as
possible - with a
Rotax 503 for power - but it's looks like about 300 pounds is the best
I could
expect.


That sounds odd, I have a set of plans on CD that claim the
Texas Parasol can be built as an ultralight.

;-)




Yes I noticed the grin so I guess you know there was a LOT of claims out
there that were no where near right!
John

UltraJohn wrote:
Anthony W wrote:

dje wrote:
http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises, 102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony


Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess with
mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 103
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?


An ultralight gyrocopter perhaps.

Otherwise, for an UL, something with a lot of drag.

But there isn't any regulation that prohibits using a 2
stroke on a light sportplane or experimental is there?
Mixing gas and oil may well be worth the minor hassle
to many pilots given the weight savings. Could that
engine be used on an aerobatic plane?

--

FF

In article ,
says...

Anthony W wrote:

dje wrote:
http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises,
102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony


Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess
with
mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 1
03
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?
John


You can get oil injection on them so you don't have to mix oil.

UltraJohn wrote:
Anthony W wrote:


dje wrote:

http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises, 102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony



Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess with
mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 103
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?
John


I was thinking about one for a sport plane. Where did you get the price
info? I'd like to know how much the forced fan cooling system adds to
the price.

Oil injection would be nice but for that power to weight ratio, I could
live without it.

Tony

Anthony W wrote:

UltraJohn wrote:
Anthony W wrote:


dje wrote:

http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises, 102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony



Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess
with mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 103
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?
John


I was thinking about one for a sport plane. Where did you get the price
info? I'd like to know how much the forced fan cooling system adds to
the price.

Oil injection would be nice but for that power to weight ratio, I could
live without it.

Tony
$800 additional for forced air!

http://www.recpower.com/f302c11.htm

wrote:


UltraJohn wrote:
Anthony W wrote:

dje wrote:
http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises,
102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony


Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess
with mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 103
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?


An ultralight gyrocopter perhaps.

Otherwise, for an UL, something with a lot of drag.

But there isn't any regulation that prohibits using a 2
stroke on a light sportplane or experimental is there?
Mixing gas and oil may well be worth the minor hassle
to many pilots given the weight savings. Could that
engine be used on an aerobatic plane?

I'd think you could especially with the fuel injected model. Still IMHO
there are too many other options out there to have to mess with mixing oil.
Even if I built just for the short haul eventually (like in 4+ years when
I retire!) I'd like to mousy (SP) around the country a bit and not have to
lug that 2 stroke oil around !
John

sleepy6 wrote:

In article ,
says...

Anthony W wrote:

dje wrote:
http://www.hirth-engines.de/english/

http://www.recpower.com/f23.htm


David


That opposed 4 is rather impressive if it delivers what it promises,
102
HP and only 92.4 pounds. I hate to ask what one of those costs...

Tony


Free Air Electric Start G40 Gear Box $7985.00
Add approximately $2000 for fuel injection

But really do you want to spend that much money and still have to mess
with
mixing fuel and oil? These engines do not have automix oil/fuel.
I guess it would be ok for casually around the patch flying but what 1
03
legal ultralite really needs 100 hp?
John


You can get oil injection on them so you don't have to mix oil.
Maybe, but their web page listed no such option. and all of them listed the
required mix ration for the oil/fuel.
Oh and it's listed as 105lbs plus add another 24lbs for the gearbox and
another 8.5 for the forced air! It starts adding up. Also if you do find
another model that has oil injection you'll need to add more weight for the
oil tank and yes the oil also it uses a ;-) (at least my old Kawasaki 500
did, but it sure could move!).
John

"UltraJohn" wrote

I'd think you could especially with the fuel injected model. Still IMHO
there are too many other options out there to have to mess with mixing
oil.
Even if I built just for the short haul eventually (like in 4+ years when
I retire!) I'd like to mousy (SP) around the country a bit and not have to
lug that 2 stroke oil around !

To me, the big turn-off of mixing oil is not the hassle of mixing, but the
fact that once the oil is mixed, it starts to degrade, very quickly.

What would you do to avoid this? Use all of your gas on every flight?
Sounds like a good way to run out, so using it all would not be an option.
Drain it after every flight, and find an alternate way to use it? Tough way
to go, doing that.

Perhaps this is not a big issue, when practical experience has been applied,
but I know the condition does exist.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:


Even if I built just for the short haul eventually (like in 4+ years when
I retire!) I'd like to mousy (SP) around the country a bit and not have to
lug that 2 stroke oil around !


To me, the big turn-off of mixing oil is not the hassle of mixing, but the
fact that once the oil is mixed, it starts to degrade, very quickly.

What would you do to avoid this? Use all of your gas on every flight?
Sounds like a good way to run out, so using it all would not be an option.
Drain it after every flight, and find an alternate way to use it? Tough way
to go, doing that.

Perhaps this is not a big issue, when practical experience has been applied,
but I know the condition does exist.

The only reason that gas and oil separates is that it is either caster
based oil or high alcohol content fuel. From my motorcycle racing days
I don't trust synthetic oil but it will stay mixed with alcohol.
Shaking up the tank will remix all but caster based oils. Use avgas and
mineral based 2 stroke oil and they shouldn't separate for the working
life of stored fuel.

Tony