First Time Buyer. Help!

Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

"KayInPA" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

1) Figure out what your "mission" is, then buy the airplane for that
mission.
2) Don't buy the first airplane you look at.
3) Don't buy an airplane because it has a pretty paint job.
4) Find a good mechanic (get references) who is familiar with the aircraft
type you're looking at. Preferably this mechanic will be at your home
field. Explain to the mechanic that not only are you looking for an
airplane, you're looking for a mechanic. Have that mechanic do your
pre-purchase inspection.
5) Buy the nicest (i.e. best equipped, properly maintained) airplane you
can afford. It'll be cheaper in the long run than upgrading an airplane
with a bad paint job, used up engine, or ancient avionics.

KB

Here's the best advice you can receive;

1. Join the type club for the particular aircraft you're considering.
They'll be able to tell you the do's and don'ts of the units as well
as the performance specs of the various year models..

2. Get a prebuy done by a mechanic knowledgable in the model you're
considering.

3. See #2

4. See #2

5. See #2

Good luck


On 3 Apr 2004 05:09:51 -0800, (KayInPA)
wrote:

Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Hi Kay,

Personally, I would recommend renting a wide variety of aircraft for a short
time -- six months to a year -- after getting your ticket. Expose yourself
to as many different makes and models as possible, before you decide to
purchase one.

You may find that you prefer something different than what you trained in,
and purchasing the wrong plane can be expensive. (Although it's hard to go
too wrong with a 172. You can always sell it for darned near what you paid
for it.)

As for finances, do NOT try to justify your purchase financially. Owning an
aircraft can be done for convenience, or business, or enjoyment, or a hobby,
or training, or a billion other reasons -- but it cannot be done to "save
money."

That said, I wouldn't trade it for the world. The knowledge that I can go
from Iowa to Florida in 6.5 hours -- at a moment's notice -- provides a
great deal of "value" to me -- especially in winter. :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Kyles advice is right on. I would add "buy an airplane that you can afford
to fly without thinking about the expense" I know some frustrated pilots
who don't fly much because the Baron (or whatever) is expensive enough that
they don't fly it unless they really need to go somewhere. Also I would
prefer an airplane that I could keep at the nearest airport. So if the
nearest airport does not have hanger space availible, get an airplane that
you are willing to leave outside.

Mike
MU-2

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...

"KayInPA" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

1) Figure out what your "mission" is, then buy the airplane for that
mission.
2) Don't buy the first airplane you look at.
3) Don't buy an airplane because it has a pretty paint job.
4) Find a good mechanic (get references) who is familiar with the
aircraft
type you're looking at. Preferably this mechanic will be at your home
field. Explain to the mechanic that not only are you looking for an
airplane, you're looking for a mechanic. Have that mechanic do your
pre-purchase inspection.
5) Buy the nicest (i.e. best equipped, properly maintained) airplane you
can afford. It'll be cheaper in the long run than upgrading an airplane
with a bad paint job, used up engine, or ancient avionics.

KB

Don't just buy a cessna because you trained in it.

There are several other models available that are appropriate to low time
pilots.

I like the idea of renting around in order to compare models. You may also
find that some private owners will give you a ride, but don't expect them to
let you do anything other than a few turns.

There is a wide amount of choices in your price range that vary a lot on
load, handling, stability, fun, etc. Don't worry too much about speed
because it tends to cost more than its worth to most buyers in your range.
Getting speed always means giving up something else.

"KayInPA" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

Great advice and do your homework on maintenance and insurance costs.
But don't let it discourage you, you'll never have a better feeling
with all your clothes on than when you get your first flying machine.

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:32:21 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:


"KayInPA" wrote in message
. com...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

1) Figure out what your "mission" is, then buy the airplane for that
mission.
2) Don't buy the first airplane you look at.
3) Don't buy an airplane because it has a pretty paint job.
4) Find a good mechanic (get references) who is familiar with the aircraft
type you're looking at. Preferably this mechanic will be at your home
field. Explain to the mechanic that not only are you looking for an
airplane, you're looking for a mechanic. Have that mechanic do your
pre-purchase inspection.
5) Buy the nicest (i.e. best equipped, properly maintained) airplane you
can afford. It'll be cheaper in the long run than upgrading an airplane
with a bad paint job, used up engine, or ancient avionics.

KB

All of the things already mentioned. plus...

Establish the partnership agreement IN WRITING !.

Even if just between the 2 of you, in WRITING determine how expenses will be
handled, maintainence, what happens when things BREAK when YOU and they are
using it. There are 2 basic methods.

1: You estimate all costs ahead of time, divide by XX hrs of planned annual
use then charge an hourly rate accordingly. Most partnerships are done this
way. You determine that GAS will be always left to the tabs (or full). Any
more left in, is free for the next flyer. If expenses are more than what's
"in the bank", then you have one time assessments to meet the expenses.

2: You split everything 50/50. (My partnership is this way). All expenses
are split 50/50 each month EXCEPT GAS. When returning you leave the gas at
the tabs. The more you fly, the better for you. My partner and I get along
great and the plane is always in tip top shape. if something breaks when I'm
flying. I take it to the mechanic and we split the cost. Same for my
partner.



For the purchase contract, there is a good boiler plate in the AOPA website.
If youre not a member.. join. Use the title search service (cheap check to
be sure the seller is the ONLY owenr of the plane). I got insurance through
them too. Frist year was 1500, second 1000 (I got my instrument, partner has
ATP and 27000 hrs !).

Don't think the pre-buy will find EVERYTHNG. We had a good prebuy but
found some things later but we were happy with our purchase and still are.
If you can find it, buy it with the radios you want in it OR it has to be
such a good deal that you will put the radios in and have $ left over.
radio installation is not cheap. We put a GPS , NAV COM and audio panel.
The INSTALL bill alone was $3000. This was added to an IFR cert airplane !

Plan on 2-3000 each for unexpected repairs the first year.

GOOD LUCK.

BILL

On your pre buy make sure you take a mechanic can check the avionics and
instruments in the pre buy its the only thing we did not check and during
the after purchurace inspection was deturmed that most all my instruments
needed replaced nice little $2,400 dent in the pocket book but what the hell
its only money we can always make more right.


"KayInPA" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

I am seriously considering the purchase of an airplane and would like
to ask the group for potential dos and don'ts. I would so appreciate
any guidance, advice, or practical tips other pilots in this newsgroup
could offer. Also, to ask about any financial considerations that my
not be obvious to a first time owner.

If I decide to go forward, I'll be buying the airplane with a partner;
a friend of mine who is beginning his instrument studies. We are
looking in the $60k - $100k price range and prefer Cessnas because
we're training in 172s. However, if we find the right deal, other
manufacturers might also be considered.

Thanks so much in advance for any help you could give us.

--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from the end of aviationns

On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 08:32:21 -0500, "Kyle Boatright"
wrote:

Hi Kyle,

1) Figure out what your "mission" is, then buy the airplane for that
mission.

Yes, that's the trickiest part! We know that we primarily want to
share the airplane for training purposes (i.e. our instrument ratings)
with the secondary goal being the freedom to go further away and for
longer stretches of time than our FBO allows. I think an IFR 172 fits
the first bill exactly right, but it doesn't fit the second objective
nearly as well.

Considering training expenses, a 100 nm rental-airplane leash may
quickly turn the $100 hamburger into sort of a $7,000 hamburger.

4) Find a good mechanic (get references) who is familiar with the aircraft
type you're looking at. Preferably this mechanic will be at your home
field. Explain to the mechanic that not only are you looking for an
airplane, you're looking for a mechanic. Have that mechanic do your
pre-purchase inspection.

We are very fortunate to have an ATP pilot friend who is also an A&P
willing to help us look at airplanes. Choosing a person who will
ultimately be our regular mechanic is something else, and is on the
list to do before we get serious about any particular airplane.

5) Buy the nicest (i.e. best equipped, properly maintained) airplane you
can afford. It'll be cheaper in the long run than upgrading an airplane
with a bad paint job, used up engine, or ancient avionics.

Excellent advice. Thank you very much!


--
Kay
Student Pilot
email: remove "ns" from "aviationns"









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