Criminal Prosecution for TFR Bust?

Larry Dighera wrote:

If the government continues on its course of citizen oppression, it
will soon learn that such a policy will be its undoing.

A true optimist. Hope you're right.

George Patterson
They say nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is, death
doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.

Probably because she was never taught about these things in school.
Neither was I. Probaby because she was taught that the police had to
follow the rules in the constitution. No one ever taught any of us
about these things. Therefore they don't exist. Also she probably
voted for Bush, how could he do such a thing, if she voted for him?

It all really exists, secret FISA courts, 1000 arrested without
charges after 9/11, and Guantanamo Bay.

The CIA really exists, it's not just a figmant of your imagination.

"Peter Gottlieb" wrote in message . net...
The Justice Department and Ashcroft admit everything alleged. What about
this don't you believe?


"Samantha" wrote in message
...
Doug wrote:

Do a google search on "9/11 Detainees", "Guantanamo Bay Detainees",
and "FISA Secret Court"

Because, if it's on the Internet, it MUST BE True. Don't provide
specific citations from respected
sources, of course.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 10:08:41 -0500, "G.R. Patterson III"
wrote in Message-Id:
:

Larry Dighera wrote:

If the government continues on its course of citizen oppression, it
will soon learn that such a policy will be its undoing.

A true optimist.

That's far better than some of the other things I've been called. :-)

Hope you're right.

Time will tell.

The founding fathers had faith in the will of the people; I hope we
haven't changed too much since 1776.

TSA strategy: If you're lousy at your job of catching criminals, make it
easier by creating more "criminals".

I'm sure there's a column on a spreadsheet somewhere titled "successful
intercepts" or some such.

- Andrew

Larry Dighera wrote:

The founding fathers had faith in the will of the people; I hope we
haven't changed too much since 1776.

In 1776 opinions weren't swayed by the candidate with the most money for TV
time.

- Andrew

"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
| On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 16:24:58 -0800, C J Campbell wrote:
|
| Criminal prosecution? Under what section of the US Code?
|
|
| Patriot Act, Homeland Security Act.
| read them and you know your "rights".

Neither the Patriot Act nor the Homeland Security Act authorize prosecution
for violating a TFR or, for that matter, any other FAA regulation.

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:46:20 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

in German: http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/magazin/0...260710,00.html

Interesting. For free, the usual unsupported dreck. For a couple of
bucks (for me, that would be the charge for the articles plus the bank
charges to process dollars into euros) you can have the full context.

I'll offer a translation, best I can, in all cases the word
translation choices are mine:

(begin translation)

660 prisonsers now subsist in the high-security prison called "Camp
Delta" at the Guantanamo Bay Marine base. Among them is a Turk, Murat
Kurnaz, who was born and raised in Bremen (Germany). Without the
chance for a trial, he waits for his release, or at least some
official charge.

AP

Prisoners in an apparantly disenfranchised place: Camp Delta Inmates

This military prison is located in Cuban jurisdiction, and is
therefore outside the reach of American justice. The prisoners are
charged with being "illegal combatants," which is an elegant
equivocation for the total loss of justice. No inmate knows what the
future holds for him. Either they receive no due process and stand to
wait, rotting in prison for years to come, or they'll receive charges
that could mean the death penalty.

68 of these prisoners were released in the last 18 months. Karin
Assman spoke with some of them for SPIEGEL TV, and got a look at
Guantanamo from the inside.

(end translation)

Go ahead, Spiegel, tell us how you *really* feel!

I note that for a holding prison which (I'm told, and those pictures
seem to show) feeds and clothes the inmates, and gives them
opportunity to exercise their religion (note that those flourescent
prison outfits come with *head cover*), within the constraints of the
prison.

Perhaps SPIEGEL TV would serve us all better by examining something
like the French prison system, or that of, say, Saudi Arabia. In
Saudia Arabia, I'm told, the prisoners give law enforcement a hand
from time to time. Literally.

And in any case, the term is "enemy combatant," and is a *correct*
term for a combatant who operates against an army outside the
strictures of the Geneva Convention.

None of that page, of course, makes the claim that Martin made, namely
that there were bounty hunters involved in collecting the enemy
combatants. Presumably the allegations are made in the TV program? If
so, by whom? And what would be wrong with that in a war zone?

Es geht schon, Martin. Ein paar hier koennen auch Deutsch, auch wenn
unsere Tastaturen es nicht koennen!

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

Larry Dighera wrote in message . ..
The founding fathers had faith in the will of the people; I hope we
haven't changed too much since 1776.

I'm not a political scientist, but actually I believe the founding
fathers didn't have much faith in the will of the general public...
and that's why we have a representative republic instead of a raw
democracy.

The founding fathers worried about the "tyranny of the majority",
which for pilots would indeed be much worse, as the majority of folks
would probably vote to shut down general aviation out of sheer
ignorance.

With a republic, minority views count, since (for one thing) we can
put pressure on our representatives, or even shout out our own views.

Just a sidenote. Thanks. Kev

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 04:55:11 GMT, "Peter Gottlieb"
wrote in Message-Id:
:


"Orval Fairbairn" wrote in message

news
....

Maybe it's time to get criminal prosecutions against some officials in
the SS.

I'm afraid it's too late. The power is no longer with the people in this
country.


To which "power" are you referring? If it's the judicial power of
government, there's little doubt that, given the gutting of
Constitutional assurances by the Patriot Act, you are correct.

If the power to which you refer is the peoples' "might to do right,"
the numbers look like they could be 260 million to perhaps well under
one million. I'd say odds of 260:1 are significantly in the favor of
the people to see that justice returns to its government.

It's but a matter of public education and will. When the
extra-constitutional powers granted government by the Patriot Act
begin to be used against the people of the nation, and the lives of
its people are directly impacted, there will be potential for the
people to reverse the travesties contained in the Patriot Act, and
submit its agencies to redress.

I believe we'll have to give the government a little more time to hone
its hobnail boots and iron fists to allow the pendulum of tyranny to
swing yet farther to the right before it can be clearly discerned and
addressed by the man-in-the-street.

If the government continues on its course of citizen oppression, it
will soon learn that such a policy will be its undoing.


I suppose you mean just like the Germans public rose up against the Nazi
tyranny in the 1930s.

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
It's absolutely astonishing how the Executive branch of our (US)
government has done the bidding of the 9/11 terrorists in hastening
the fall of our young idealistic nation in such a brief period of
time. I wouldn't have thought it possible. But, tyranny seems to lie
just beneath the surface of those in power:

Just woken up have we. Politicians love terrorists. Terrorists give the
politicians the excuse to take even more power. And once power is taken then
it is never given up easily.

I am sorry to say that 9/11 was just what Bush needed to save his Presidency
and the political careers of a whole load of White House staff who know they
were going down the tubes if things were to continue as they had been.

Bush must say prayers of thanks to the Lord for creating Bin Ladan.