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C-130 on Navy Carrier



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 7th 05, 07:05 PM
Jeroen Wenting
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"JJ" wrote in message
...
"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?
WDA
end


What would happen if the C130 just flew in low to the deck and the
cargo was ejected out the back? Could most airdropped stuff take a 10
foot freefall? How about 20 feet? How about the carrier deck?
Probably no dents right? I can imagine it "depends" on what is being
delivered.

How would you pick up return cargo and passengers using such a technique?



  #22  
Old February 7th 05, 07:24 PM
Peter Twydell
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In message , Tex Houston
writes

"Peter Twydell" wrote in message
...

Where would they have parked it between flights, had it gone into service?
--
Peter



How about in the normal parking spot on the base where it was stationed on
land. Don't think it was ever contemplated to have a carrier based C-130.
Think about it.

Regards,

Tex


That would be a good idea, but as Bill Kambic said, what if the a/c is
unable to take off again for several hours? That's a lot of hardware
clogging up the deck.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!
  #23  
Old February 7th 05, 07:43 PM
Peter Twydell
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In message , Jeroen Wenting
writes

"JJ" wrote in message
...
"W. D. Allen Sr." wrote:
Does anyone know anything about the C-130 that made arrested landings and
launches from a Navy aircraft carrier back in the 1960s?
WDA
end


What would happen if the C130 just flew in low to the deck and the
cargo was ejected out the back? Could most airdropped stuff take a 10
foot freefall? How about 20 feet? How about the carrier deck?
Probably no dents right? I can imagine it "depends" on what is being
delivered.

How would you pick up return cargo and passengers using such a technique?


A modification of this technique might do it:
http://tinyurl.com/3rnj5

Winding the cable in to recover the cargo would be interesting.

I'm not sure if the term 'snatch pilot' would be one to use on the west
side of the pond, though.
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!
  #25  
Old February 7th 05, 09:04 PM
JJ
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"Jeroen Wenting" wrote:
What would happen if the C130 just flew in low to the deck and the
cargo was ejected out the back? Could most airdropped stuff take a 10
foot freefall? How about 20 feet? How about the carrier deck?
Probably no dents right? I can imagine it "depends" on what is being
delivered.


How would you pick up return cargo and passengers using such a technique?


I would assume that the priority was to get cargo onto the carrier not
off.

Jay
  #26  
Old February 7th 05, 09:18 PM
JJ
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William Hughes wrote:

What would happen if the C130 just flew in low to the deck and the
cargo was ejected out the back? Could most airdropped stuff take a 10
foot freefall? How about 20 feet? How about the carrier deck?
Probably no dents right? I can imagine it "depends" on what is being
delivered.


I don't think it's been tried on a carrier, but the system you describe exists.
It's called the Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System (LAPES).
Problem is, it isn't accurate enough for a carrier. One or two hundred feet short or long, or a
few degrees off-axis on land is no big deal, but on a carrier it's the
difference between a successful delivery and a massive hole in the transom, a
bunch of wrecked deckload aircraft, or a lost cargo.


Wouldn't the flight deck be cleared of aircraft? The 1960s picture
shows a cleared deck on Forrestal. How fast does the cargo slow down
from the parachutes that pull it from the plane? What if a special
surface was put on the bottom of the delivery containers to help it
slow down quicker? Imagine big keds sneaker soles? :-)

It's be easier to just rig the cargo for airdrop and splashdown, then retrieve it with the carrier's helos.
This, of course, limits the cargo to the lifting capacity of the helo, which
invalidates the entire reason for using a C-130 in the first place. Might as
well just stick to the COD.


Well wasn't the main reason for trying out the C130 more because of
range limitations not payload? Also, if the C130 payload is not a
couple of very large items too heavy for a helo but instead many
smaller items that could be recovered in multiple helo lifts?

Jay
  #27  
Old February 7th 05, 09:27 PM
JJ
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No Spam wrote:

the 'freefall' delivery scenario..

I imagine it would be safer to put the cargo in the water on special
pallets (already being done) for surface pick-up. Dropping moving
cargo onto the flight deck? Well that's just plain scary... I'm sure
it *could* be made to work but at what cost; at what risk to ship,
acft (C-130 and those on deck), personnel; and why even attempt if
there are reasonable alternatives?
("Rig the barricades! Incoming delivery for ATO...")
/lac/


What if you want to use an aircraft larger than the C130 - something
that could land on the carrier (or maybe couldn't even land) but
couldn't take off again. (whoa, what about a situation where the
delivery was *SO* important it would be worth it even though the plane
is pushed off the side after the delivery."

What if the sea state was really bad and in water recovery was not
possible? Granted it would make the close approach of the aircraft
very difficult and the cargo more "lively" on deck.

But hey, we're talking about unusual ideas for the unusual situations
that come up in warfight right.

Jay
  #28  
Old February 7th 05, 09:32 PM
JJ
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"John Keeney" wrote:

Don't forget that besides the ten foot fall the dropped cargo is
moving forward at the same speed as the C-130. You'll need a
big net to catch it before it zooms off the end of the deck.
The plane could stop because it could use its brakes and reverse
thrust.


Yes, I had not fully considered this aspect - with higher altitude
parachute drops the cargo loses most of the aircraft imparted forward
velocity by the time it lands.

I took a look at some LAPES links
http://www.parachutehistory.com/military/lapes.html
http://www.edwards.af.mil/moments/do.../94-05-03.html

I wonder how slowly a laden C130 could fly yet still generate enough
force from the parachutes to pull out the cargo and ensure predictable
placement. How about a C17?

Jay
  #29  
Old February 7th 05, 09:37 PM
JJ
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"Dave Kearton" wrote:
In addition to all that, the damage done by the pallet to the non-skid
surface would be extensive.


What if there was a special material on the bottom of the pallet that
not only helped cushion the landing, slow down the cargo and keep it
from sliding around when coming to a stop but also wore or ablated to
minimize wear or damage to anti-skid coatings.

I recall when Kitty Hawk visited Perth recently it received a $100K
resurface, before heading out again.


I would imagine the downtime is a much bigger issue than $100k
material/labor cost.

Jay
  #30  
Old February 7th 05, 10:17 PM
JJ
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Okay, here's another one:

Big cargo plane comes in for approach, the back door opens up, an
arresting hook comes out. It is attached to a LAPES sled/pallet.
The hook grabs an arresting cable, the release force threshold is
reached. the cargo is pulled from the aircraft cargo bay and onto the
deck.

The arresting cable system slows down the load and keeps it from going
too far.

Jay
 




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