Mechanical Vario

On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses.

Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the
panel.

Would love to hear what people have in their panel.

Jeff

Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup
vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power.
That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this
glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available.

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote:

This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses.

Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the
panel.

Would love to hear what people have in their panel.

Jeff

Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup
vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power.
That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this
glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available.

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on
RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and
it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love
to add audio, anyone know a cheap source? the only other hole in my
panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider
when i got it. too bad it didnt work to well. it had a diaphragm TE
system and ran on a couple D cells.

On Sep 24, 2:53 am, Jose Jimenez nospam@please wrote:

Considering that the Bohli vario is the only truly accurate vario, I
woldn't want to fly without one.

Jose, would you care to expand on that statement?

the original question: My preference is for electric vario as
backup, for audio, reliability, and responsiveness. I use a
Westerboer (sp?) 911, and I have two separate electrical systems in my
glider.

The most likely point of failure in my ship is the TE probe, which
would affect either kind of vario...(my other system is an SN10)

I've never had an electrical failure in over 2400 hours of flying
gliders (so I'm due, obviously). Never had an electric vario fail
inflight. I have flown with a lot of really bad mechanical varios (in
club and rental ships) and hate them.

I find that I thermal on audio, rarely looking at instantaneous lift
value at all - since it is really the change in lift that I care about
in the short term (to center the thermal). So a simple mechanical
would be just a hole-filler.

YMMV, of course.

Kirk
66

Jeff Runciman wrote:
This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses.

Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the
panel.

Would love to hear what people have in their panel.

Jeff




go for the electric backup that has it's own battery or internal
rechargable battery. No sense being w/o an audio.

I've always had a backup vario. Some were electric, others mechanical.
Some were completely separate (power, static, TE, pitot), others had a
common point of failure (usually the TE probe and/or electrical bus/
common battery selector switch). I'm not sure there's a perfect answer
although the small, self contained electonic vario with audio/averager
sounds good if you could connect it to a separate TE source.

[On that note, I had a running correspondence with one of the major
vario/flight computer systems last year about offering electronic TE
as a backup option. His contention was that it didn't work as well as
a good TE probe. My point was that if the probe failed (it's happens),
I'd like to have a backup TE vario. We never came to a common
understanding although I think one of the major manufacturers offers
something like this.]

Get something good enough to fly a contest with, not just to limp
home. That way you'll be familiar with it when your primary vario does
fail.

I've had batteries fail with little warning (yes, I have a backup).
The panel-mounted fuse holder came loose at one national contest and
provided intermittant power. One mechanical vario failed suddenly. And
the pressure capsule in my ASI failed at another national contest
which not only gave me no airspeed info but also removed the netto and
speed-to-fly info from my primary vario/flight computer.

If you fly long enough, something will fail. Provide redundancy with
as few common points of failure as possible, then go fly.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

wrote:
On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote:

This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses.
Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the
panel.
Would love to hear what people have in their panel.
Jeff
Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup
vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power.
That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this
glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available.

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on
RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and
it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love
to add audio, anyone know a cheap source?

eBay or other pilots replacing varios?

Seriously, I'd look for a used Borgelt B40 (its now replaced by the B400
but still fully supported by Borgelt) or a Tasman V1000 (used or new).
Both are relatively inexpensive. I've flown with and like both. The B40
has an internal battery for backup. The Tasman is pretty unbreakable
thanks to its LCD display. Both have an averager: you push a button on
the B40 to read average while the Tasman shows instantaneous and average
all the time. Both make nice noises.

the only other hole in my
panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider
when i got it.

How big is a Crossfell?

Both the B40 and Tasman fit a 57mm (2 1/4") hole.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

At 22:30 23 September 2007, Dan G wrote:
If my primary (electric audio) vario failed it most
likely be because
of a general power failure, which would have also have
left me without
radio, GPS and logger. If I did want to use a mechanical
vario, I'd
have to go 'heads down', which is something I just
won't do. I'd fly
home via the seat of my pants.

So, no mechanical vario here.

The words of a K8 flying stroker! Get a life - any
reasonably experienced pilot is perfectly safe with
the odd glance at a mechanical vario!

My advice would be to have at least one back-up vario
either mechanical or electrical. (I fly with Cambridge,
so I have a backup everything, plus a mechanical).
As always buy the best you can afford. A 302 is a pretty
good vario and only fills one 57mm hole, and then you
get a back-up GPS as well. If you are lucky enough
to be able to afford this, then its an option.

Good point about TE probe failure. I've been thinking about adding a Dick
Johnson midship probe. I'll keep my tail mounted probe as a backup.

About battery failure. I've never known of a failure except in very new
(rare) or very old batteries. I had a conversation with a pilot I saw with
three huge batteries under his arm walking toward his glider.
Q. Why so many?
A. They might fail.
Q. How old are they?
A. I dunno, they came with the glider
Q. How long have you owned the glider?
A. 10 years.

Sealed Lead Acid rechargables are really only reliable for three years
whether on the shelf or in use. I start with a fresh one every two years.
I also go through the wiring at least twice a season. So far, no failures.

Bill D


"Chip Bearden" wrote in message
ups.com...
I've always had a backup vario. Some were electric, others mechanical.
Some were completely separate (power, static, TE, pitot), others had a
common point of failure (usually the TE probe and/or electrical bus/
common battery selector switch). I'm not sure there's a perfect answer
although the small, self contained electonic vario with audio/averager
sounds good if you could connect it to a separate TE source.

[On that note, I had a running correspondence with one of the major
vario/flight computer systems last year about offering electronic TE
as a backup option. His contention was that it didn't work as well as
a good TE probe. My point was that if the probe failed (it's happens),
I'd like to have a backup TE vario. We never came to a common
understanding although I think one of the major manufacturers offers
something like this.]

Get something good enough to fly a contest with, not just to limp
home. That way you'll be familiar with it when your primary vario does
fail.

I've had batteries fail with little warning (yes, I have a backup).
The panel-mounted fuse holder came loose at one national contest and
provided intermittant power. One mechanical vario failed suddenly. And
the pressure capsule in my ASI failed at another national contest
which not only gave me no airspeed info but also removed the netto and
speed-to-fly info from my primary vario/flight computer.

If you fly long enough, something will fail. Provide redundancy with
as few common points of failure as possible, then go fly.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

On Sep 24, 10:29 am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 24, 5:54 am, wrote:
On Sep 23, 1:25 pm, Jeff Runciman
wrote:

This question was posted earlier but I was hoping for
a few more responses.
Do I put a mechanical vario or do I save space on the
panel.
Would love to hear what people have in their panel.
Jeff
Hi Jeff - The ILEC SB-9 is a 2 1/4" self-contained backup
vario with audio, and charges from the normal ship's power.
That's what I have as a backup in my Antares 20E, though this
glider has "more than adequate electrical power" available.

Best Regards, Dave "YO"

All I have is a Cambridge (I think) mechanical vario that i bought on
RAS. I did make up a TE prob a la dick johnson plans last winter and
it works as well as i could expect for a home made TE probe. Id love
to add audio, anyone know a cheap source?


eBay or other pilots replacing varios?

Seriously, I'd look for a used Borgelt B40 (its now replaced by the B400
but still fully supported by Borgelt) or a Tasman V1000 (used or new).
Both are relatively inexpensive. I've flown with and like both. The B40
has an internal battery for backup. The Tasman is pretty unbreakable
thanks to its LCD display. Both have an averager: you push a button on
the B40 to read average while the Tasman shows instantaneous and average
all the time. Both make nice noises.

the only other hole in my
panel is sized for the vintage crossfell vario that was in the glider
when i got it.


How big is a Crossfell?

Both the B40 and Tasman fit a 57mm (2 1/4") hole.

--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

the crosfell is smaller than a 2 1/4 standard instrument, i could
probably cut the panel out to a bigger size though. thanks for the
tip on the B40 and Tasman, ill check them out. would have to add
another wire from my fancy pantsy 12 V battery electrical system.

On Sep 24, 4:19 pm, Owain Walters
wrote:
As for the 'heads down' comment, I cant see why having
a mechanical vario would force your head down the entire
time. Surely a glance at the variometer every now and
again doesnt make your lookout become dangerous?

No, it doesn't. I was trying to imagine centering a thermal with only
a mechanical, which would probably demand more head-down time.

I admit though I have little experience of complex vario/flight
computers - I'm not a comp pilot and think vario technology peaked
with the B40 :-).

Must agree with Kirk on the quality of mechanical varios - I've not
flown a glider where the mechanical agrees with the electric! I
suspect that on a lot of gliders the mechanical, being the back-up,
doesn't get the TLC it needs to remain accurate (I'm sure they were
when new).


Dan