Mechanical Vario

I remember the Solfahrtgeber, too, though I never flew with one. I
guess the biggest drawback was that because everything was mechanical,
they were calibrated for one type of sailplane. Buy a better glider
and you needed a new speed-to-fly vario. Otherwise known as planned
obsolescence.

Speaking of simplicity, I flew for a long time with a pure netto
vario. In still air, the needle pointed to zero. You needed at least a
couple of knots "up" to achieve zero sink, which is something that
quickly became automatic. The nice thing was that when you flew into
sink, the needle of the vario immediately pointed to the proper speed
to fly on the speed ring. There was no "chasing the needle" caused by
the sink rate of the glider increasing as you speeded up and the
needle moving a little more causing you to have to speed up a little
more until everything stabilized...by which time you were long past
the sink. In some respects the "relative netto" I use today on my
fancy vario/flight computer with the push/pull bars requires a little
more attention. Progress, progress.

Tim, I absolutely agree with you that the electronic/GPS revolution
that's taken over soaring is not all for the better. New pilots
struggle to understand how to set up all the gadgets they [think they]
need. But even the experienced hands have troubles. On almost any day
at any big contest you will find at least one pilot (often more) who
is frustrated because one of his fancy/expensive instruments isn't
working right, or at all. Years ago, I was annoyed when we went to
clock cameras here in the U.S. and I had to buy two new cameras at
$100 each, in particular when I never actually used the clock feature.
How quaint were my objections then! Now many pilots carry two flight
computers. And while that's still optional, everyone has finally
admitted that you need two GPS loggers, although thankfully a close
reading of the U.S. rules reveals you can get by with a recording
handheld GPS receiver for your backup at a cost of only a few hundred
dollars...on top of the IGC-approved primary logger. I enjoy being
relieved from the chores of navigating with charts and knowing
precisely how far out I am on final glide but I fought against GPS in
the cockpit in part because navigation used to be a skill we measured
in competition.

Fortunately I'm computer savvy, work in the IT industry, and so can
generally get the latest hardware and software to do what it's
supposed to do most of the time. But I do wonder how much more
difficult it has become for someone coming into our sport to afford
all this technology, to learn how to configure it and use it, and to
become familiar with our complex competition rules. The latest gadgets
make it easier for experienced hands to go faster with less attention
devoted to mundane chores but I think they also sometimes raise the
bar for newer pilots in several ways. Not the direction we want to go
in our shrinking sport. Just my opinion.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

Chip,

I was a new guy in soaring about 7 years ago and as I was working on
my Silver badge, got a lesson in how to smoke a windup barograph and
all that. I bought a used thermal electric model that required no
screwing around, all I had to do was put it in the glider. I then
tried to do my Silver distance with a camera, the rigmarole was
ridiculous. I ordered a Colibri immediately after that and badge
flights have been simple (except for the flying) ever since.

I agree that electronics require a certain amount of screwing around,
but so cameras and barographs. Most of the computer mess only has
to be done once, then the per-flight work is simple.

Todd Smith
3S

Chip Bearden wrote:

Speaking of simplicity, I flew for a long time with a pure netto
vario. In still air, the needle pointed to zero. You needed at least a
couple of knots "up" to achieve zero sink, which is something that
quickly became automatic. The nice thing was that when you flew into
sink, the needle of the vario immediately pointed to the proper speed
to fly on the speed ring.

You must have had a pretty good unit, because my unit always pointed to
the speed I should have been flying 10-15 seconds before I got to to
that speed! By the time I got there, the air was different, and it was
telling me to fly a different speed. OK, with the Ka-6e, the speed range
was small enough, I was able to stay close, but with faster gliders, I
can't really fly "the speed to fly" because it's changing faster than I
can change speed, so I do what I saw most of the hot shots doing in
contests - flying a steady speed and picking a good route through the air.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

In addition to my old reliable B40, I have a newly old B50. As I'm cruising
along the B50's audio will switch to slow yodel and two blue LED's will
light up indicating the need to slow down "a lot". It's usually not clear
to me why I should slow down but I've learned to trust it. After I enter
the zoom I usually feel a kick in the pants as I enter a strong thermal. It
seems to know a thermal is coming well before I do.

Mike, HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

Bill Daniels

On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
In addition to my old reliable B40, I have a newly old B50. As I'm cruising
along the B50's audio will switch to slow yodel and two blue LED's will
light up indicating the need to slow down "a lot". It's usually not clear
to me why I should slow down but I've learned to trust it. After I enter
the zoom I usually feel a kick in the pants as I enter a strong thermal. It
seems to know a thermal is coming well before I do.

Mike, HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

Bill Daniels

dang, I REALLY need to get one of those!

On Sep 26, 9:41 pm, Eric Greenwell wrote:
You must have had a pretty good unit, because my unit always pointed to
the speed I should have been flying 10-15 seconds before I got to to
that speed! By the time I got there, the air was different, and it was
telling me to fly a different speed. OK, with the Ka-6e, the speed range
was small enough, I was able to stay close, but with faster gliders, I
can't really fly "the speed to fly" because it's changing faster than I
can change speed, so I do what I saw most of the hot shots doing in
contests - flying a steady speed and picking a good route through the air.

I followed the needle a lot more then than now. I'm not sure whether
the dramatic zoomies and pushovers made sense but they were fun.

In any case, I like having a number in front of me that says what I
should be doing. It's like the speed to fly number in GNII: If you set
the MacCready value for, say 4 kts., then the normal cruise speed
shows up as, say, 80 kts. But at least in the software version I'm
flying, that speed number remains constant no matter what the airmass
is doing. If I'm flying through monster sink, I would like to know
that my new "ideal" speed is now 100 kts. even if I choose not to
chase it. That's what the netto speed ring did. What I don't like to
do is follow a needle (or push/pull bars) blindly, not knowing whether
I'm 6 kts. or 26 kts. too slow or fast. With my set up, the closest I
can come to that is to adjust the allowable speed deviation before the
flight computer starts beeping at me but I still don't know how far
away from the "ideal" speed I am. Is that instant "ideal" speed
available on other flight computers?

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
USA

wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
In addition to my old reliable B40, I have a newly old B50. As I'm cruising
along the B50's audio will switch to slow yodel and two blue LED's will
light up indicating the need to slow down "a lot". It's usually not clear
to me why I should slow down but I've learned to trust it. After I enter
the zoom I usually feel a kick in the pants as I enter a strong thermal. It
seems to know a thermal is coming well before I do.

Mike, HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

Bill Daniels

dang, I REALLY need to get one of those!

Save your money - you are flying a glider that is already slowed down!
Seriously - Bill might be cruising 40 knots over his thermalling speed,
while you are maybe cruising 10 knots above your thermalling speed. Set
the money aside for another glider, or use it to go to contest or
soaring camp.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On Sep 27, 9:10 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
In addition to my old reliable B40, I have a newly old B50. As I'm cruising
along the B50's audio will switch to slow yodel and two blue LED's will
light up indicating the need to slow down "a lot". It's usually not clear
to me why I should slow down but I've learned to trust it. After I enter
the zoom I usually feel a kick in the pants as I enter a strong thermal. It
seems to know a thermal is coming well before I do.

Mike, HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

Bill Daniels

dang, I REALLY need to get one of those!

Save your money - you are flying a glider that is already slowed down!
Seriously - Bill might be cruising 40 knots over his thermalling speed,
while you are maybe cruising 10 knots above your thermalling speed. Set
the money aside for another glider, or use it to go to contest or
soaring camp.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

fair enough eric. a guy can dream though.

this discussion reminds me of this story by Jim Foreman. classic.
http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/varios.htm

On Sep 27, 8:29 am, wrote:
On Sep 27, 9:10 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:





wrote:
On Sep 26, 10:53 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
In addition to my old reliable B40, I have a newly old B50. As I'm cruising
along the B50's audio will switch to slow yodel and two blue LED's will
light up indicating the need to slow down "a lot". It's usually not clear
to me why I should slow down but I've learned to trust it. After I enter
the zoom I usually feel a kick in the pants as I enter a strong thermal. It
seems to know a thermal is coming well before I do.

Mike, HOW DOES IT DO THAT?

Bill Daniels

dang, I REALLY need to get one of those!

Save your money - you are flying a glider that is already slowed down!
Seriously - Bill might be cruising 40 knots over his thermalling speed,
while you are maybe cruising 10 knots above your thermalling speed. Set
the money aside for another glider, or use it to go to contest or
soaring camp.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes"http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" atwww.motorglider.org

fair enough eric. a guy can dream though.

this discussion reminds me of this story by Jim Foreman. classic.http://www.jimforeman.com/Stories/varios.htm- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Or just drag that Cherokee out West. The 1-26ers get in some amazing
flights out here!
Back to the subject.... and this may be a bit of a 'noob' question.
Is there an instrument that will indicate the optimum speed to fly to
get through large areas of HUGE sink, also taking into account winds?
I have a very basic 302A FR, and an iPAQ with XCSoar.
Hints?
Jim "Flies with Sheep"
N16UF

Chip Bearden wrote:
(snip)

Speaking of simplicity, I flew for a long time with a pure netto
vario. In still air, the needle pointed to zero. You needed at least a
couple of knots "up" to achieve zero sink, which is something that
quickly became automatic. The nice thing was that when you flew into
sink, the needle of the vario immediately pointed to the proper speed
to fly on the speed ring. There was no "chasing the needle" caused by
the sink rate of the glider increasing as you speeded up and the
needle moving a little more causing you to have to speed up a little
more until everything stabilized...by which time you were long past
the sink. In some respects the "relative netto" I use today on my
fancy vario/flight computer with the push/pull bars requires a little
more attention. Progress, progress.

My primary vario for 26 years was/is a Sage connected to a Schuemann B
box, which does exactly what Chip describes. Everyone in this
silly/wonderful sport gets to define their own "ideal setup"; this is
mine. IMHO one of the Great Mysteries of Life is why so few choose this
particular set-up. Even Reichmann dissed it in favor of something
genuinely more arcane in my view. Imagine you're a hawk, with a hawk's
sensors, skill set and hunger. Seems to me the One Thing you'd want to
know is how fast you *could* be climbing should you decide to, AND what
your...seems to me the TWO Things you'd want to know are how fast you
*could* be climbing should you decide to, AND what your speed to fly
should be should you choose not to climb. Compensated netto immediately
shows you both at a single glance. (Mirabile dictu!!!)


(More snips...)
Fortunately I'm computer savvy, work in the IT industry, and so can
generally get the latest hardware and software to do what it's
supposed to do most of the time. But I do wonder how much more
difficult it has become for someone coming into our sport to afford
all this technology, to learn how to configure it and use it, and to
become familiar with our complex competition rules. The latest gadgets
make it easier for experienced hands to go faster with less attention
devoted to mundane chores but I think they also sometimes raise the
bar for newer pilots in several ways. Not the direction we want to go
in our shrinking sport. Just my opinion.

Chip touches above ("but I think they also sometimes raise the bar for
newer pilots in several ways. Not the direction we want to go
in our shrinking sport.") on an aspect of soaring I suspect has more
than just a hint of truth to it. Like Chip, I'm reasonably computer
savvy, comfortable with working with hardware and software, etc., but
the soaring pilot in me has essentially zero desire to get onboard this
particular technological rat-race. Give me some basic information in an
easily-absorbed and useful presentation, and no further punching of my
soaring ticket need be done. Officially, I have 2/3 of my Silver Badge
(both achieved in a 1-26), while my mind notes the remaining legs
claimed (in a minimally-outfitted, dry, 1st-generation 15-meter ship).
I still figure if I get outflown in that ship, it's because of better
pilotage, not better instrumentation or a better ship. Regrettably,
with the passage of time, it seems to me that fewer and fewer newbies
and XC-wannabes lend much credence to my claims.

Personally, I think the Gospel of Simplicity ought to be preached more,
because so much of soaring does not REQUIRE the latest in bells and
whistles be present in order for fledglings to begin spreading their
wings in personally gratifying and safe ways. Flight (in any form)
costs more than remaining groundbound. Soaring flight as a niche
certainly isn't cheap (in time or money or mental effort required), and
any barriers (real or imagined) to achieving it are precisely that:
barriers. I don't think soaring participants should be promoting Mark
CXXIV widgets as a universal good, or worse, as necessary, to everyone
getting into the sport. Sell the sport first...the widgets will tag
along in their own good time as newbies begin to better define which
aspect(s) of soaring they wish to pursue.

Regards,
Bob - JMHO - W.