A aviation & planes forum. AviationBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » AviationBanter forum » rec.aviation newsgroups » Military Aviation
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Best dogfight gun?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 4th 03, 03:03 PM
Bjørnar Bolsøy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Best dogfight gun?


It takes time to wind up and has a small projectile, so how does
the M61 really stack up against, say, the BK27 og Giat 30mm as
far as dogfighting is concerned? Even with the PGU28?
Is shot density the primary factor to look at?


Regards...
Ads
  #2  
Old December 5th 03, 02:42 AM
Orval Fairbairn
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote:

It takes time to wind up and has a small projectile, so how does
the M61 really stack up against, say, the BK27 og Giat 30mm as
far as dogfighting is concerned? Even with the PGU28?
Is shot density the primary factor to look at?



Major factors a

1. muzzle velocity
2. bullet mass
3. rate of fire

They all have to work together to raise PK (probability of kill).
  #3  
Old December 5th 03, 04:58 AM
robert arndt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Bjørnar Bolsøy" wrote in message ...
It takes time to wind up and has a small projectile, so how does
the M61 really stack up against, say, the BK27 og Giat 30mm as
far as dogfighting is concerned? Even with the PGU28?
Is shot density the primary factor to look at?


Regards...



The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:


http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

Rob
  #4  
Old December 5th 03, 05:28 AM
Chad Irby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

....if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.
  #5  
Old December 5th 03, 07:20 AM
John Cook
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:28:01 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...



Look at the spool up times ;-)...

Whats the avarage gun burst time in a dogfight...

Cheers

John Cook

Any spelling mistakes/grammatic errors are there purely to annoy. All
opinions are mine, not TAFE's however much they beg me for them.

Email Address :-
Spam trap - please remove (trousers) to email me
Eurofighter Website :-
http://www.eurofighter-typhoon.co.uk
  #6  
Old December 5th 03, 08:45 AM
Chad Irby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article ,
John Cook wrote:

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:28:01 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c...2/mauser21.htm
l


...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...


Look at the spool up times ;-)...


If you forget to warm up your Gatling, you're probably the sort to
forget to arm the darned thing to begin with. The technical term for
that is "dead guy."

Whats the avarage gun burst time in a dogfight...


Whatever it is, you're going to have to hold the trigger down for over
three times that to get the same amount of fire downrange.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.
  #7  
Old December 5th 03, 10:52 AM
Greg Hennessy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 07:45:39 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:


Whats the avarage gun burst time in a dogfight...


Whatever it is, you're going to have to hold the trigger down for over
three times that to get the same amount of fire downrange.


Given the that the designer of the mig-29 is on record as saying that he
should have halved the number of rounds carried for its gsh-30L. Tony
Williams has a table on his website which details why a single barrelled
cannon will get there 1st with the mostest when compared to a gatling.



greg

--
In the beginning. Back in nineteen fifty-five
Man didn’t know about a rock ’n’ roll show
And all that jive.
  #8  
Old December 5th 03, 11:37 AM
Scott Ferrin
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:20:23 +1100, John Cook
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 04:28:01 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...



Look at the spool up times ;-)...

Whats the avarage gun burst time in a dogfight...

Cheers

John Cook


Cover all the bases and use a GAU-8 ;-) Takes a bit to wind up but
even those first rounds will count for something :-)
  #9  
Old December 5th 03, 04:42 PM
robert arndt
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Chad Irby wrote in message om...
In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c.../mauser21.html

...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...


....when the M61 doesn't jam, that is. I prefer Mauser's BK-27
jam-proof linkless and up-coming dual feed version.
BTW, in close combat 6000 rpm bursts don't mean that much. A
1,700-1,800 rpm burst of 27mm fire from the single-barrel BK-27 will
ruin your day, especially with frangible ammo.
Now if only the Germans could fit the amazing 30mm RMK inside the
Typhoon... but I'm sure it will find its way onto the Tiger helo.

Rob
  #10  
Old December 5th 03, 05:02 PM
Chad Irby
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

(robert arndt) wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:
(robert arndt) wrote:

The M61 is a poor substitute for this bad baby:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/c...r2/mauser21.ht
ml


...if you don't mind only firing 1,700 rounds per minute as opposed to
about 6,000...


...when the M61 doesn't jam, that is.


....which is pretty much all of the time. If the Gatling guns were prone
to jamming, someone would have mentioned it sometime in the last forty
or so years.

I prefer Mauser's BK-27
jam-proof linkless and up-coming dual feed version.


Here's a tip: No such thing as a "jam-proof" weapon that relies on ammo
feed of any sort. You're been reading the Mauser PR releases too much.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
AIM-54 Phoenix missile Sujay Vijayendra Military Aviation 89 November 3rd 03 10:47 PM
P-39's, zeros, etc. old hoodoo Military Aviation 12 July 23rd 03 05:48 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2019 AviationBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.