Sparrowhawk/Apis for rent

Was following the Sparrowhawk thread and like the post concerning
sponsering a glider at a contest to gain exposure.

A perhaps better idea would be for Sparrowhawk, Apis, Silent, etc. to
loan a glider to the big soaring sites (Bermuda High, Seminole Lake,
Minden, Turf, etc.). That way many people would rent these gliders
and the glider manufactures would gain a broad exposure.

Perhaps the soaring sites would provide insurance and keep the rental
fees. The glider manufacturers would maintain ownership (and hence,
claim resale value at a future date) as well as benefit from the
advertising as people try the planes. Perhaps above a certain usage
level, the glider manufacturer would recieve compensation based on
"too many hours" (one would assume the soaring sites would be raking
in the dough for rental fees at this point).

If the numbers work out right, the manufacturers would have 3-4 planes
in rental service that would re-sale at least at cost at a future
date. So the advertising would be almost free. The soaring sites
would benefit because there is no expense in buying the plane, just
have to buy the insurance only...so profits could be more for these
"factory demonstrator" planes.

Is this not a good way to build market presence?

John

http://www.windward-performance.com/

In the case of the Sparrowhawk, looks like the first
17 are already spoken for. What would be the insurance
implications if any of a commercial operator using
a non-certificated ship?

If I could add a few words about another good way for manufacturers to
gain exposure that is very common in the foot-launched world of hang
gliders, it's yearly manufacturer demo days.

Hang glider manufacturers meet several times a year at well-known hang
gliding sites for 2-3 days to give many pilots the opportunity to test
fly their latest HG models, all at no charge. This is one of the most
successful ways for HG manufacters to gain customers. It's always the
most popular event of the year for HG in Arizona.

But, since sailplanes easily last decades, the market is probably much
less active than the HG market, where many pilots trade their hang
gliders every 2-4 years, or every year for many competition pilots.
Exposure is good, but if it doesn't lead to more sales, it's no more
than an extra expense for the manufacturers.

gill
www.gillcouto.com/hg


John wrote:
Was following the Sparrowhawk thread and like the post concerning
sponsering a glider at a contest to gain exposure.

A perhaps better idea would be for Sparrowhawk, Apis, Silent, etc. to
loan a glider to the big soaring sites (Bermuda High, Seminole Lake,
Minden, Turf, etc.). That way many people would rent these gliders
and the glider manufactures would gain a broad exposure.

Perhaps the soaring sites would provide insurance and keep the rental
fees. The glider manufacturers would maintain ownership (and hence,
claim resale value at a future date) as well as benefit from the
advertising as people try the planes. Perhaps above a certain usage
level, the glider manufacturer would recieve compensation based on
"too many hours" (one would assume the soaring sites would be raking
in the dough for rental fees at this point).

If the numbers work out right, the manufacturers would have 3-4 planes
in rental service that would re-sale at least at cost at a future
date. So the advertising would be almost free. The soaring sites
would benefit because there is no expense in buying the plane, just
have to buy the insurance only...so profits could be more for these
"factory demonstrator" planes.

Is this not a good way to build market presence?

John

John wrote:
Was following the Sparrowhawk thread and like the post concerning
sponsering a glider at a contest to gain exposure.

A perhaps better idea would be for Sparrowhawk, Apis, Silent, etc. to
loan a glider to the big soaring sites (Bermuda High, Seminole Lake,
Minden, Turf, etc.). That way many people would rent these gliders
and the glider manufactures would gain a broad exposure.

Is this not a good way to build market presence?

I don't know the specifics of renting experimentals, but I suspect
some of these are experimental. Also, I wonder how insurance
goes (esp for Sparrowhawk). Can one rent experimentals commercially,
or just in clubs? I honestly don't know (it's
never come up before).

And Gary Ittner or John Kemp in an Apis is gonna sell more than
having one sitting around the club. Kinda like Tiger Woods
using golf clubs. No matter what he uses, they're gonna
look like great clubs chuckle.



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In article BYt%b.12220$qL1.6511@fed1read02,
Gill Couto wrote:
If I could add a few words about another good way for manufacturers to
gain exposure that is very common in the foot-launched world of hang
gliders, it's yearly manufacturer demo days.

Hang glider manufacturers meet several times a year at well-known hang
gliding sites for 2-3 days to give many pilots the opportunity to test
fly their latest HG models, all at no charge. This is one of the most
successful ways for HG manufacters to gain customers. It's always the
most popular event of the year for HG in Arizona.

But, since sailplanes easily last decades, the market is probably much
less active than the HG market, where many pilots trade their hang
gliders every 2-4 years, or every year for many competition pilots.
Exposure is good, but if it doesn't lead to more sales, it's no more
than an extra expense for the manufacturers.

gill
www.gillcouto.com/hg

See! This is why I think the SSA (and others) should mix more with
the parachute, ultralight, and hang gliding community. There
are some really creative ideas these guys have that just don't
pop up in the slightly stiffer glider community. Sure I think they're
zany (no rigid wing?) but they're fun!!!

Two problems I can think of:

As mentioned in other replies, I don't think you can use an experimental
plane for commercial (rental) purposes.

What if the pilots renting them have a variety of minor accidents due to
inexperience in make and model. The companies might get market
exposure, but it could be negative.

Scott


John wrote:

8 cut here....for brevity.



A perhaps better idea would be for Sparrowhawk, Apis, Silent, etc. to
loan a glider to the big soaring sites (Bermuda High, Seminole Lake,
Minden, Turf, etc.). That way many people would rent these gliders
and the glider manufactures would gain a broad exposure.

Is this not a good way to build market presence?

John

At 05:18 27 February 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
In article ,
Gill Couto wrote:
If I could add a few words about another good way for
manufacturers to
gain exposure that is very common in the foot-launched
world of hang
gliders, it's yearly manufacturer demo days.

Hang glider manufacturers meet several times a year
at well-known hang
gliding sites for 2-3 days to give many pilots the
opportunity to test
fly their latest HG models, all at no charge. This
is one of the most
successful ways for HG manufacters to gain customers.
It's always the
most popular event of the year for HG in Arizona.

But, since sailplanes easily last decades, the market
is probably much
less active than the HG market, where many pilots trade
their hang
gliders every 2-4 years, or every year for many competition
pilots.
Exposure is good, but if it doesn't lead to more sales,
it's no more
than an extra expense for the manufacturers.

gill
www.gillcouto.com/hg

See! This is why I think the SSA (and others) should
mix more with
the parachute, ultralight, and hang gliding community.
There
are some really creative ideas these guys have that
just don't
pop up in the slightly stiffer glider community. Sure
I think they're
zany (no rigid wing?) but they're fun!!!

Stiff? In a word, illegal!

Mark James Boyd wrote:


I don't know the specifics of renting experimentals, but I suspect
some of these are experimental. Also, I wonder how insurance
goes (esp for Sparrowhawk). Can one rent experimentals commercially,
or just in clubs? I honestly don't know (it's
never come up before).

We recently got an MDM-1 "Fox" Acro glider in Holllister with an
experimental cert. Right now our FBO isn't charging for instruction in
it or renting the ship. But he apparently found a way to do so by
talking to some folks at the EAA (I think).

BTW, Mark if you haven't been up in the Fox yet, you really need to go
for a ride. It's easy to fly. I did my first 360 degree rolls in it a
few weeks back. :-)

Jeremy

In article ,
Jeremy Zawodny wrote:
Mark James Boyd wrote:


I don't know the specifics of renting experimentals, but I suspect
some of these are experimental. Also, I wonder how insurance
goes (esp for Sparrowhawk). Can one rent experimentals commercially,
or just in clubs? I honestly don't know (it's
never come up before).

We recently got an MDM-1 "Fox" Acro glider in Holllister with an
experimental cert. Right now our FBO isn't charging for instruction in
it or renting the ship. But he apparently found a way to do so by
talking to some folks at the EAA (I think).

BTW, Mark if you haven't been up in the Fox yet, you really need to go
for a ride. It's easy to fly. I did my first 360 degree rolls in it a
few weeks back. :-)

Jeremy

Yes, it sounds like a blast. I'm guessing they may have applied for,
and gotten, a waiver. There are folks who have done this.
There's a guy in Florida who does twin training in a Leza AirCam,
for profit, with an exemption this way.

So dual training sounds like at least an exemption, but what
about solo rental, for example? I haven't heard of this,
but again I haven't looked too close yet...

Nyal Williams wrote:
At 05:18 27 February 2004, Mark James Boyd wrote:
There
are some really creative ideas these guys have that
just don't
pop up in the slightly stiffer glider community. Sure
I think they're
zany (no rigid wing?) but they're fun!!!

Stiff? In a word, illegal!

The gliding community is illegal? Hmmm... where did THAT
come from. Demos of aircraft by salesmen, seem to be OK under
61.113 (f).

If you have references making any of this illegal, let me know and I'll
pass it on to Van's and our local Cirrus and Cezzna dealer, since they
demo airplanes all the time...

As a side note, 61.113(g) seems to say a PPL is excepted from
restrictions on compensation for glider towing. Hmmm...hadn't seen
that before. Interesting...