Should you tell Tower you're departing IFR

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?



I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.


How did you come to be on a 270 vector? Sugarland has only a north-south
runway and the tower assigned runway heading. Who then assigned a west
heading and for what purpose?



Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.


If some time elapsed between issuance of IFR clearance and taxiing for
departure ground control may have forgotten that you were an IFR departure
and prepared a new VFR strip for local control. Did you request taxi right
after getting your clearance? If not, did you tell ground you were IFR when
you called for taxi?



Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).


Are you sure the code was 0044? The National Beacon Code Allocation Plan
assigns codes 0100-0477 to terminal operations, it doesn't assign the block
0000-0077 to any purpose (which I find rather odd). Since your flight was
entirely within Houston Center you should have been assigned a code from one
of ZHU's internal departure blocks; 45xx, 46xx, or 47xx.

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Well, you get your clearance from Ground/Clearance Delivery, but then
there may be any number of delays between that time, and when you're
ready to take off.

You need to let the tower know when you're ready (by telling them that
you're holding for IFR release). The tower then begins negotiating for
a slot in the 'system' for your flight. Once they have a slot ready,
they clear you to take off.


Why is it necessary to tell the tower you're holding for an IFR release?
Whether or not an IFR release is necessary is an internal ATC matter. If
the tower must call for IFR release it should do so right after taxi
clearance is issued to an aircraft that previously was issued an IFR
clearance.



I was told this 'holding for release' should never take more than a
few minutes, but then I fly out of a not-so-busy tower-controlled
airport (Sacramento Executive, KSAC).

I was taught never to assume that I would be able to just tell the
tower that I was ready to go.


Were you taught why you should never assume that?



This step of finding a slot in the
system for me can't begin until I let the tower know that I'm ready.


That's ridiculous.

On 9/23/2005 11:34, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"John Clonts" wrote in message
ups.com...

or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control.


How much time elapsed between getting your clearance and taxiing for
departure?



Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure.


Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?

They do when you've requested flight following.



--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Waiting for IFR release". It says it all.

John Clonts wrote On 09/23/05 09:01,:
or should they just know it already?

I was departing Sugarland (KSGR) yesterday, after having gotten my
clearance from ground control. Tower assigned me runway heading (this
was about 45 minutes later as there was MUCH traffic waiting in line
for takeoffs) and handed me off to departure. I had trouble getting a
word in edgewise, but when I eventually did, departure said "change
squawk to 0044". Later a different controller (but same freq I
believe) asked my if I was VFR???? I told him "Negative, N7NZ is
cleared Industry departure then as filed, currently on 270 vector". He
said, "roger, cleared direct IDU", and the rest of the flight was
uneventful (and unambiguously IFR). This was all in VMC.

Later I thought that maybe the tower didn't realize I was IFR when he
cleared me for takeoff, and that fouled something up with departure.

Or, is there another reason I would have immediately been given a new
squawk code like that? I seem to remember that 0xxx squawks are
"local" or something like that. Yet I believe I then kept that same
0044 the entire remaining duration of the flight (through Houston
Center and then Austin Approach to my destination 44TE).

Thanks!
John Clonts
Temple, Texas
N7NZ

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.


Do IFR departures normally request flight following?

On 9/23/2005 11:43, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Well, you get your clearance from Ground/Clearance Delivery, but then
there may be any number of delays between that time, and when you're
ready to take off.

You need to let the tower know when you're ready (by telling them that
you're holding for IFR release). The tower then begins negotiating for
a slot in the 'system' for your flight. Once they have a slot ready,
they clear you to take off.


Why is it necessary to tell the tower you're holding for an IFR release?
Whether or not an IFR release is necessary is an internal ATC matter. If
the tower must call for IFR release it should do so right after taxi
clearance is issued to an aircraft that previously was issued an IFR
clearance.

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off? The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.

Of course, this may be one of those 'local policy' issues?





I was told this 'holding for release' should never take more than a
few minutes, but then I fly out of a not-so-busy tower-controlled
airport (Sacramento Executive, KSAC).

I was taught never to assume that I would be able to just tell the
tower that I was ready to go.


Were you taught why you should never assume that?

Yes, as explained above.




This step of finding a slot in the
system for me can't begin until I let the tower know that I'm ready.


That's ridiculous.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off?


Depends how far it has to taxi. The controller will know from experience
and provide an appropriate estimate to the facility providing departure
control functions.



The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.


The tower knows where you are and where you have to taxi to and how long it
takes to get there.



Yes, as explained above.


Well, you were taught wrong.

On 9/23/2005 12:05, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

How long will it take the aircraft to go from requesting the clearance
(or taxi) and being ready to take off?


Depends how far it has to taxi. The controller will know from experience
and provide an appropriate estimate to the facility providing departure
control functions.

Included in this time as well are the run-up checks and the
navigation setup, chart organization, etc.

I don't see how the tower could guess when the plane will be ready
to depart.




The tower needs to negotiate a
slot in the system for your flight. To do that, it needs to know when
you're going to be ready to go.


The tower knows where you are and where you have to taxi to and how long it
takes to get there.



Yes, as explained above.


Well, you were taught wrong.

ok, thanks.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

On 9/23/2005 11:51, Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Do they normally send VFR aircraft to departure?


They do when you've requested flight following.


Do IFR departures normally request flight following?



Either you're not following along, or you just want to argue.

Have a nice day.

--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Sacramento, CA

"Mark Hansen" wrote in message
...

Included in this time as well are the run-up checks and the
navigation setup, chart organization, etc.


Consider doing your navigation setup and chart organization prior to taxi.



I don't see how the tower could guess when the plane will be ready
to depart.


Well, they do it hundreds of times every day all over the US.