Bible-beater pilots

On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 10:48:49 -0500, "John Gaquin"
wrote:

What chip am I carrying?

Re-read your own post. The whole tone is one of over-reaction.

Is not. I would have had a very similar initial reaction to that kind
of witnessing. It's rare enough that it's a surprise whenever I find
it.

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

"John Gaquin" wrote in message ...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message

???

What chip am I carrying?

Re-read your own post. The whole tone is one of over-reaction. Granted,
these guys were obnoxiously intrusive, no excuse, but you do sort of carry
on about them. From the time they said Grace before lunch, you took
thirteen paragraphs to relate something that could have been told in three
or four. I think you really *wanted* to rant. Clearly, evangelizing
organized religion is a hot-button with you.

And how have they ruined more than my lunch?


By your own account, you and Mary rehashed the event all the way home. I'm
betting the subject wasn't dropped on arrival back at Iowa City, either.
And the following day you were still incensed enough to post a rather
lengthy message to the NG. So, these guys had you locked and stressed for a
day and a half, anyway.

Jay, I'm no missionary, but I'm not an atheist or agnostic, either. There
are whackos everywhere, in all walks of life. There are guys I know in
airline cockpits I wouldn't want moving into my neighborhood! You just
can't let them get you wired like this!

That's all I meant.

JG

Who hit a "hot button" with whom?

Jay Honeck wrote:

Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in
every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone smart


Ever look at the front page of an Ac-u-Kwik book?

Ever look at the front page of an Ac-u-Kwik book?

Nope. What's there?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

when ever approached... be more zealous then they area.. be affirmative..
and try to convert them to your beliefs.. they'll run away.. or stop
talking..

yes.. I am "saved".. I don't attend a "Structured church"... but I do thank
god every day I fly.. that I have the knowledge and the capability to enjoy
his world.. and to see it in ways that no other man can.. and I lead a
respectful pleasant life...

my mother-in-law thinks I walk on water.. I just don't let her see my wet
sandals..

BT

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:Wwfvb.262377$Fm2.278122@attbi_s04...
Yesterday was clear, in the 60s (in November in Iowa!), and -- best of
all -- our day off. With the kids in school, and the plane fully fueled,
it
was off to...where?

Prairie du Chein, sitting at the confluence of the Mississippi and
Wisconsin
Rivers, beckoned, with its beautiful approaches, favorable runways, and a
riverboat casino that would fetch us over to their excellent lunch buffet.
So, we pointed Atlas in that general direction, and puttered our way to
Wisconsin at a paltry 109 knots -- we were bucking a 35 knot headwind all
the way!

Luckily, above 3500 feet it was smooth as a baby's bottom. Calling PDC
from
10 minutes out, we asked them to call the casino's courtesy vehicle for
us.
To our surprise, they announced that it was "already on the way" --
apparently someone was there ahead of us, and had already made the call.

After a beautiful (if bumpy) approach (thanks to the wind hitting the huge
bluffs that line the river by PDC) I taxied up to the terminal, and parked
next to a gorgeous blood-red Mooney. It was immaculate, and the paint
really set it apart. Upon strolling inside, we discovered two older
gentlemen, one of whom owned the Mooney -- evidently the folks who had
called the casino. The courtesy van was already there, so we hopped in
the
back and all rode over together.

The usual introductions were made, and standard pilot talk ensued. It
turned out that the Mooney was a '67 model, and both guys were retired and
in their mid-70s. One had been a Sears store manager for many years, and
the other -- the owner of the Mooney -- was a successful real estate
developer. The conversation flowed smoothly, and the ride went quickly.
As
we disembarked from the van, we bid them adieu and went our separate ways.

In the buffet line, we ran into them again. While I was filling my salad
bowl, the old Sears manager asked me if we cared to join them for lunch?
Since we were sans kids, and they were mighty nice company, Mary and I
allowed that joining them was a grand idea, and proceeded to confuse the
wait staff by moving our beverages across the room to their table.

Once we were all seated with our food, the real estate guy announced that
it
was their habit to pray before meals, and asked if we might join them. I
frankly found this a bit odd, in a casino buffet, but to be polite we
affirmed the idea and bowed our heads while the Sears guy recited a prayer
about safe flying and good eating. Mary and I exchanged the old "uh-oh"
glance, but we still hoped that things would progress normally.

It was not to be.

As lunch proceeded, we began discussing Iowa City, and how terrific the
school system was, and they guided the conversation uncomfortably into
what
church we attended with our kids. Mary struggled bravely to answer that
question in a way that wouldn't offend these obviously religious men, but
there was simply no way to hide the fact that we didn't take them to ANY
church. I then proceeded to explain that we had both been raised
hyper-Catholic, and had been bludgeoned to death with our heavy-handed
religious upbringings. We were going to let our children decide their
religion when they reached the age of reason.

This was a mistake. I might as well have tossed blood into shark-infested
waters.

The next question, after a pause, was from the Sears guy, asking whether
we
had Gideon bibles in our hotel suites. I chuckled, and allowed that we
did.
I then went on to say how we'd even seen some competition amongst the
various religious sects in town, with the Mormons trying to get us to put
their "Book of Mormon" texts in all the suites, too. Still chuckling, I
remarked that we had to draw the line somewhere, or we'd have to put the
Koran and the Hindu texts in the suites, too.

This was another mistake. The Sears guy turned out to be a Gideon, and he
didn't warm to the notion that I was equating his King James Bible with
the
Koran.

Soon, both men were quoting scripture to us, chapter and verse, "proving"
how "easy" it was to be "saved" by the "true Lord, Jesus", as opposed to
the
heathen gods of the other religions. By now we were both growing
incredibly uncomfortable, and I had that horrible "this must be a
nightmare"
feeling rising in the pit of my stomach. Not knowing whether to bolt or
tell them to f*ck off, I just sat there silently, dumbly smiling at them
in
disbelief.

Then the Sears guy asked me if I knew how "truly easy" it was to be
"saved"?
I replied, quite honestly, "no". (ANOTHER mistake!) He then told me that
I
didn't have to close my eyes, nor did I even have to be in church -- I
only
had to say the following prayer along with him, giving myself over to
Jesus
Christ. He then asked, directly, "Would I be willing to say this little
prayer aloud with him?"

The heat in my face was really rising now, and I felt like everyone in
that
casino was staring DIRECTLY at the back of my head. What could I say to
someone so earnest, yet so incredibly rude? I smiled, placed my hand
firmly
on his shoulder, and told him that I most certainly was NOT going to pray
with him in a casino. I then went back to eating, trying to think of
some
way -- ANY way -- to escape this insane situation.

Mary finally came up with the answer -- she bolted, and went to the
bathroom! Abandoned, I was a helpless target for their religious zeal,
and
felt myself being carried along by their verbal diarrhea. There was
simply
no escape, and I politely listened while they explained to me everything
from everlasting salvation, to the tax advantages of tithing 20% of my
income to the church...

At last Mary returned, and announced that we were late to get back to pick
up the kids from school. Never had I been so grateful for bad news in my
life, and I quickly jumped up, shook both their hands, thanked them for an
"interesting" lunch, and headed toward the door, on the double.

Feeling like I'd just been delivered from the Gates of Hell, we told the
driver (the same guy who had picked us up) about the two bible-beater
pilots. He was as dumb-founded as we were, and apologized profusely, as
if
he had just forced us to eat lunch with a couple of sloppy drunks. He
allowed that their kind was exceedingly rare at the casino -- an
observation
that made us laugh out loud.

We then warned him to keep his mouth shut when he gave them a ride back,
or
risk wasting the entire afternoon, which got him chuckling -- until his
radio crackled to life, and the dispatcher announced that he had "Two more
to go back to the airport" when he got back.

His face fell as he knew that deliverance would not be his today... Then
it
was *our* turn to laugh!

Our flight home was fast (175 knots, thanks to that tail wind) and
uneventful, but our lunch had been completely ruined, and we could only
shake our heads in wonder at the audacity of these men. The gall and
sheer
tastelessness of their behavior had us recounting every detail of the
experience all the way home, as if we had just witnessed a train wreck.
We
realized (with a shudder) that these men were only one or two steps
removed
from the Islamo-Fascists we are currently fighting in the Middle East, the
only difference being their hair style and their dogma.

Until yesterday I had run into religious fanatics and cult followers in
every walk of life EXCEPT aviation. I guess I had assumed that anyone
smart
enough to get their pilot's certificate couldn't be so gullible -- and
rude -- as to go around trying to "save" perfect strangers. I still have
a
hard time believing that it wasn't some sort of a "Candid Camera" set up,
but I'm afraid they really, honestly thought they were doing the right
thing.

Anyone ever run into this before? What did you do?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

when ever approached... be more zealous then they area.. be affirmative..
and try to convert them to your beliefs.. they'll run away.. or stop
talking..

It's been my experience that people who want to talk about their religion
don't much care about mine.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No they won't. They'll start debating.

mike regish

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:IZhvb.119$ML6.95@fed1read01...
when ever approached... be more zealous then they area.. be affirmative..
and try to convert them to your beliefs.. they'll run away.. or stop
talking..

On 2003-11-20 19:21:26 -0800, "Jay Honeck" said

--snipped a whole lot of stuff that really didn't need to be said, especially in an aviation newsgroup -

My goodness, Jay. Get a grip.

My goodness, Jay. Get a grip.

Discussing whacko pilots isn't appropriate in a piloting newsgroup?

Get a grip, Larry. I'm sincerely afraid to share the airspace with guys who
think someone Else is steering...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Get a grip, Larry. I'm sincerely afraid to share the airspace with guys who
think someone Else is steering...
--

My sister-in-law had one of those "God is my co-pilot" bumper stickers. She got
really ****ed when I pointed out that if God wrapped it around a tree, he'd be
back in three days but she would not.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG