Confusion

"Dan" wrote in message
...

Agreed, ATC completely screwed up. My point was only this - suppose
you bust an altitude because you were distracted, etc. If it didn't
cause a loss of seperation, would you rather the controller said,
"please check your altitude" or "please call this number when you land
to discuss FAA administrative action."


I'd rather the former, and that tends to be the case where no loss of
separation has ocurred.



In this scenario, the tables were turned. Let's treat ATC how we
would like to be treated.

Nobody is perfect all of the time. It's just a question of how to
handle things when someone does occasionally screw up.


I don't have an issue with the initial error, the controller not knowing the
guy was IFR. I have an issue with the controller trying to cover up that
error.

"B A R R Y" wrote in message
. net...
Matt W. Barrow wrote:
"Andrey Serbinenko" wrote in message
...
if I'm VFR I'd say:
"such-and-such ready for take-off, departing north-west (or whatever),
and if I'm IFR I'd say: "such-and-such ready for take-off, IFR to XXX".


That's what I use; no confusion about it.

Same here.

On the VFR side, it also helps the controller to know which way you're
planning to go without waiting to be asked.

When VFR, I request something like "...Columbia six Mike Kelo, three one
(runway), ready for takeoff, request southeast departure...", or I just go
with the flow.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

On Nov 27, 3:24 pm, "Jon Woellhaf" wrote:

Looks like the cover up didn't work too well, because when I told Departure,
"I thought I was IFR," he replied, "Well, that's what we thought too, but
evidently Tower messed up."


With the IWA ASR less than ten miles from FFZ Phoenix TRACON would
have had radar contact very soon after departure.

On Nov 27, 3:56 pm, wrote:

Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.


"... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." was part of the
clearance.

On Nov 28, 4:18 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

And if the tower respnds by telling you you're released? What do you do?

That's never happened.

Any needed release should have been obtained during the taxi so that when
you are ready for takeoff you can be so cleared.

ATC seems to be able to secure the release during taxi at most 40% of
the time. Usually when you tell tower you are ready to go they tell
you that they are still waiting for your release from departure.

I believe the AIM uses "ready for departure".

Since that almost killed me once, I'm not going to do it again.

-Robert

On Nov 27, 1:56 pm, wrote:
Whenever you are cleared for takeoff and do not get some kind of
instruction from tower (fly runway heading, turn left xxx., etc), be
suspicious.

Have you ever not been given such instructions when VFR?? I've never
gotten a VFR takeoff clearance that didn't include some instruction on
what heading (or at least direction) to fly until leaving the class D.

-Robert

On Nov 27, 4:05 pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
wrote:
Jon Woellhaf wrote:
Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Sounds like somebody dropped the soap. I usually make my first contact to
clearance delivery by stating words to the effect: "Cessna 1234Alpha IFR to
Miami with golf, requesting clearance." After that, it's all on them.

By then you are already in the system. In the OP's case he was
airborne, assuming he had IFR services provided, and then found out
the ball was dropped. Once you go to departure is probably too late.

I did have departure once tell me "radar services terminated, squawk
VFR". I told him "unable, IFR".

-Robert

Maybe I'm confused too, but I thought we always told Ground Control that we
were ready to taxi IFR or VFR, especially if we picked up our clearance from
some other controller. Is this no longer the norm?

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas
....

Guess I'll remember to remind Tower that I'm IFR from now on, although I
didn't think that was necessary. At least in this case, it was.

Jon

In article ,
"Jon Woellhaf" wrote:

I recently filed IFR and received a clearance from Ground. As part of the
clearance, I was told, "... after departure turn left heading 300 ..." I
taxied to the active, did my run-up, called Tower and said I was ready for
departure. I was soon cleared for takeoff.

At about 1000 AGL, I began the left turn to 3000.

About a minute later, when I hadn't yet been told to contact departure, I
asked Tower if they wanted me to contact departure. That's when the
confusion began. The controller said, "I didn't know you wanted to go to
departure, but, yeah, you can contact departure. Good day." "Well, I'm IFR,"
I replied. After a brief pause, Tower said, "Roger. Do me a favor, squawk
1200. I can't give you departure. You didn't tell me you were IFR. I didn't
get you a release."

Now I understand why at VNY, clearance delivery always tells you to
"advise the tower you are IFR" after they issue a clearance.

rg

Ray Andraka wrote:

Newps wrote:

The aircraft called ground control when he was done with his runup and
said he was ready for the clearance. GC read him the clearance and
then gave the strip to the data man for the release. Every clearance
was as filed. Always. There's nothing to digest if you flight
planned properly.


You've obviously never flown in the North East then. Unless you've
flown the exact route several times, know the traffic patterns currently
in use around NYC, and have a spate of good luck, you will usually get a
full route clearance. The preferred routes in the ugly green book are
not always the ones used either. Except for the relatively rare cleared
as filed, you'll have something to digest and a new flight plan to put
into the GPS before you are ready to depart. I always call for my
clearance before engine start, and almost always get the clearance then
as well. On routes that I fly frequently, I often do get the route I
filed, but even then they often give it as either a full or partial
route clearance.


I said that already. This was North Dakota. There are no airspace
issues. At all.