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Aviation is too expensive



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 4th 03, 09:53 PM
Chris W
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Three words, "Amateur Built Aircraft"


--
Chris Woodhouse
Oklahoma City

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania


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  #2  
Old August 4th 03, 10:43 PM
Tom S.
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"Chris W" wrote in message ...
Three words, "Amateur Built Aircraft"


Non-answer.

He's not asking for cheap alternatives, he's asking why aviation costs are
so disproportionate (i.e., why a 25 year old aircraft cost more than it did
new).



  #3  
Old August 4th 03, 10:49 PM
H.J.
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Default Aviation is too expensive

What's wrong with general aviation?

An old crapper Piper from 1978 costs over $50,000. A nice one cost $180,000.
These are relic machines with instrument panel lights and loose door handles
worse than any yugo ever had. I'd say an old Cherokee from 1978 should be
worth about as much as a V.W. from the same time period: $2500. Especially
considering the absurd yearly expenses required to keep one legal. If a v.w.
bug had to have an annual inspection that costs what a GA aircraft
inspection does, nobody would pay a cent for one.

A hiker's GPS runs $199 while an aviation version costs $1,999.

Why does an aviation spark plug cost over $20??? It's just a plug! It should
cost $1.99 for a good one! A far more complex product with dozens of
precision parts - a digital watch - can go for as little as $5.99 at
Walmart.

Why does the 36" fiberglass pan of a Warrior (the chin part where the carb
intake is on the nose) cost 5,000 freaking dollars???? It is only glass and
glue, after all. There is no structural support or anything like that
involved.

Fuel is $2.65 for self serve 100LL! Does it have pure gold flakes in it? Why
isnt it $1.50?

Maybe modern pilots are just money bags who dont care about costs.








  #4  
Old August 4th 03, 11:03 PM
Jeff Franks
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Two words...

supply and demand.


"H.J." wrote in message
...
What's wrong with general aviation?

An old crapper Piper from 1978 costs over $50,000. A nice one cost

$180,000.
These are relic machines with instrument panel lights and loose door

handles
worse than any yugo ever had. I'd say an old Cherokee from 1978 should be
worth about as much as a V.W. from the same time period: $2500. Especially
considering the absurd yearly expenses required to keep one legal. If a

v.w.
bug had to have an annual inspection that costs what a GA aircraft
inspection does, nobody would pay a cent for one.

A hiker's GPS runs $199 while an aviation version costs $1,999.

Why does an aviation spark plug cost over $20??? It's just a plug! It

should
cost $1.99 for a good one! A far more complex product with dozens of
precision parts - a digital watch - can go for as little as $5.99 at
Walmart.

Why does the 36" fiberglass pan of a Warrior (the chin part where the carb
intake is on the nose) cost 5,000 freaking dollars???? It is only glass

and
glue, after all. There is no structural support or anything like that
involved.

Fuel is $2.65 for self serve 100LL! Does it have pure gold flakes in it?

Why
isnt it $1.50?

Maybe modern pilots are just money bags who dont care about costs.











  #5  
Old August 4th 03, 11:19 PM
Jay Honeck
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Default

Two words...

supply and demand.


It's liability, too. Everyone tags on "x" percent, just to cover their
perceived risks.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


  #6  
Old August 5th 03, 01:01 AM
Addison
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Default

On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 14:43:14 -0700, Tom S. wrote:


"Chris W" wrote in message ...
Three words, "Amateur Built Aircraft"


Non-answer.

He's not asking for cheap alternatives, he's asking why aviation costs are
so disproportionate (i.e., why a 25 year old aircraft cost more than it did
new).


Some of that is due to inflation, which people tend to forget.

Inflation is, IIRC, averaging about 4% over the last 30 years or so. So
the buying power of $15k 30 years ago is equal to $48k today. (And compound
interest isn't my forte, apologies if I did that wrong).

So, $15k or $50k, which is "more?" Well, in this case, they're "equal".

Some of his other complaints.. well, he's welcome to _start his own
company_, and make the inexpensive parts, sell gas for under its cost,
etc.

And I suspect if he were to try that, or at least consider it a bit
longer, he might answer his own question.

Addison
  #7  
Old August 5th 03, 02:20 AM
Chris W
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Default

"Tom S." wrote:

"Chris W" wrote in message ...
Three words, "Amateur Built Aircraft"


Non-answer.

He's not asking for cheap alternatives, he's asking why aviation costs are
so disproportionate (i.e., why a 25 year old aircraft cost more than it did
new).


Well in that case, I have three letters for you, FAA.

And I take exception to using the term "cheap alternative" to describe "Amateur
Built Aircraft". Now if you meant "inexpensive" alternative I have no problem
with that.


--
Chris Woodhouse
Oklahoma City

"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania


  #8  
Old August 5th 03, 02:26 AM
gblack
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Default



"Larry Fransson" wrote in message
...
: In article ,
: "H.J." wrote:
:
: If a v.w.
: bug had to have an annual inspection that costs what a GA aircraft
: inspection does, nobody would pay a cent for one.
:
: And fewer of them would be broken down on the side of the road.
:
and even fewer would get on the road


  #9  
Old August 5th 03, 03:11 AM
David Megginson
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Posts: n/a
Default

"H.J." writes:

What's wrong with general aviation?

An old crapper Piper from 1978 costs over $50,000. A nice one cost
$180,000.


Boats are the same, as far as I've heard. Houses are worse: run-down
houses in our neighbourhood are now selling for over double what we
paid for our (good-condition) house in the mid 1990's.


All the best,


David

--
David Megginson, , http://www.megginson.com/
  #10  
Old August 5th 03, 03:13 AM
JWS
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Default

For the most part the cost of flying is basic economics, supply vs. demand.

Not too many people want a 1978 VW, you cannot say the same about any 1978
single engine plane.

Why inspect the VW, if it quits running you may have to talk a walk some
where, different story with the airplane.

Maybe $2.65/gal for 100LL is reasonable, cannot say I have seen it sold
anywhere but airports here in the US. Some third world countries are
probably still burning it in cars. If that is the case, the oil companies
are making a specialty product just for airplanes.

I do not know a lot about Piper parts and their cost, but the simple 36"
piece of fiberglass was probably built by hand, and they probably are
probably only selling a couple of them a year so there is no economy of
scale.

Considering the conditions an airplane sparkplug has to operate in, it is
probably worth more than $1.99. Look what an airplane engine has to do
compared to a car engine. Try running your car from idle to full throttle,
hold at full throttle under load for extended time periods and repeat. Check
out some of the experimental flyers who with some degree of success use
automotive engines in their planes, very few car engines can handle the
task. Plus, Wal-Mart sells a lot more sparkplugs that your aviation parts
supplier.

I wear cheap digital watches, like the 1978 VW when they quit (and they
always do), it is no big deal and I throw them away. Sometimes the most
difficult product to produce is a simple reliable one.

Avionics could be made a lot cheaper, but if you can sell it for $1,999 why
sell it for $199. You may say that they could sell more units and make up
the difference in volume, but any business thats been around for a while
knows what the demand for their product will be at a given price.

Flying is a very expensive hobby, but a lot of other hobbies are expensive,
you make your choices, if you want to do something you make it happen.. I do
not know many pilots that I would call money bags. Most have made economic
trade offs in other areas of their life that enable them to fly. Some live
in more modest homes than they would if they didn't fly, they don't take
many vacations, they drive the same cars for years. They put flying on hold
till after the kids are out of college and have more free cash. Everyone
knew how much it cost when they started, nobody changed the rules in the
middle of the game.

I have quit flying, right now I cannot afford it and my other expensive
hobbies, amateur radio, and scuba diving. Just shelled out $2000.00 today
for a 4 day diving trip, what should it have cost? I can go to Vegas for 4
nights for $800.00

Will PP-AEL
"H.J." wrote in message
...
What's wrong with general aviation?

An old crapper Piper from 1978 costs over $50,000. A nice one cost

$180,000.
These are relic machines with instrument panel lights and loose door

handles
worse than any yugo ever had. I'd say an old Cherokee from 1978 should be
worth about as much as a V.W. from the same time period: $2500. Especially
considering the absurd yearly expenses required to keep one legal. If a

v.w.
bug had to have an annual inspection that costs what a GA aircraft
inspection does, nobody would pay a cent for one.

A hiker's GPS runs $199 while an aviation version costs $1,999.

Why does an aviation spark plug cost over $20??? It's just a plug! It

should
cost $1.99 for a good one! A far more complex product with dozens of
precision parts - a digital watch - can go for as little as $5.99 at
Walmart.

Why does the 36" fiberglass pan of a Warrior (the chin part where the carb
intake is on the nose) cost 5,000 freaking dollars???? It is only glass

and
glue, after all. There is no structural support or anything like that
involved.

Fuel is $2.65 for self serve 100LL! Does it have pure gold flakes in it?

Why
isnt it $1.50?

Maybe modern pilots are just money bags who dont care about costs.










 




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