auto fuel issues

right now, avgas is running $2 more a gallon than premium car gas. And
from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol. My
homebuilt has a 160 lycoming, which is supposed to be approved for
premium auto fuel. The only drawback I can think of is the stability
of auto gas sitting in tanks in the plane for extended periods. And
what I'm wondering is if that fuel stabilizer is added, that could
eliminate that issue. I use it in cans for things around the house,
and it seems to be some type of alcohol based product. I just wonder
if it would affect the vapor pressue of premium auto fuel and even
though it's added in very small amounts, could it do some of the
negative things to the fuel system components that ethonol does? does
anyone know anything about that stuff?

Personally, I would contact the manufacturer and get their recommendation of
the stabilizer product before using it in airplane fuel.
"rich" wrote in message
...
right now, avgas is running $2 more a gallon than premium car gas. And
from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol. My
homebuilt has a 160 lycoming, which is supposed to be approved for
premium auto fuel. The only drawback I can think of is the stability
of auto gas sitting in tanks in the plane for extended periods. And
what I'm wondering is if that fuel stabilizer is added, that could
eliminate that issue. I use it in cans for things around the house,
and it seems to be some type of alcohol based product. I just wonder
if it would affect the vapor pressue of premium auto fuel and even
though it's added in very small amounts, could it do some of the
negative things to the fuel system components that ethonol does? does
anyone know anything about that stuff?

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 13:45:34 -0500, rich
wrote:

right now, avgas is running $2 more a gallon than premium car gas. And
from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol. My
homebuilt has a 160 lycoming, which is supposed to be approved for
premium auto fuel. The only drawback I can think of is the stability
of auto gas sitting in tanks in the plane for extended periods. And
what I'm wondering is if that fuel stabilizer is added, that could
eliminate that issue. I use it in cans for things around the house,
and it seems to be some type of alcohol based product. I just wonder
if it would affect the vapor pressue of premium auto fuel and even
though it's added in very small amounts, could it do some of the
negative things to the fuel system components that ethonol does? does
anyone know anything about that stuff?


StaBil is BHT, the same stuff they use to keep potato chips and other
greasy fast food from going rancid. So yes, it IS an alcohol type
substance - butylated hydroxy-toluene.
Not enough of it to affect vapour pressure and won't affect your
rubber or metal parts.

rich wrote:
... And from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

I would verify that. It's probably dependent on the area of the country
you're in. I think selling non-ethanol gas in Iowa is a capital offense.
I know in New England there were 3 airports getting autogas, but
starting in 2009 the fuel suppliers are going to be adding the ethanol
earlier in the process, so they can't get it from the area distributor.
They would now have to go to Canada to get it which of course makes it
uneconomical.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:43:07 -0500, "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in
address)" wrote:

rich wrote:
... And from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

I would verify that. It's probably dependent on the area of the country
you're in. I think selling non-ethanol gas in Iowa is a capital offense.
I know in New England there were 3 airports getting autogas, but
starting in 2009 the fuel suppliers are going to be adding the ethanol
earlier in the process, so they can't get it from the area distributor.
They would now have to go to Canada to get it which of course makes it
uneconomical.
In Canada, Shell ultra is E0, shell regular is E10.

Shell has gone on record as saying they will fight tooth and nail to
keep it that way.

On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:43:07 -0500, "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in
address)" wrote:

rich wrote:
... And from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

I would verify that. It's probably dependent on the area of the country
you're in. I think selling non-ethanol gas in Iowa is a capital offense.
I know in New England there were 3 airports getting autogas, but
starting in 2009 the fuel suppliers are going to be adding the ethanol
earlier in the process, so they can't get it from the area distributor.
They would now have to go to Canada to get it which of course makes it
uneconomical.


Non-blended gasoline is widely available in Iowa. The Iowa legislature
took a run at making a requirement that all fuel sold in the state
contains ethanol, but that law did not pass. I am not even sure that
it got further than being a proposal. Our neighbors in Missouri are
not as lucky. All their fuel is blended with 10% ethanol, except for
a premium, higher octane fuel. Which is available, but not all
stations carry it.
Iowa did try to sneak a law past that says that retailers no longer
must post on the pump that a fuel contains ethanol. The theory was
that out of state drivers would see the ethanol label on the pump, and
choose not to use it. This only goes to show how sneaky some lawmakers
can be. Rest assured that I wrote several letters to express my
concern about that.

As a side note, it is beginning to look like the bloom is off the
ethanol rose. It never was a good idea anyway, and we see in the
newspaper here that many ethanol plants are shutting down. Mainly
because the price of corn is so high, but also because demand is down.
Putting ethanol made from corn in our gas will not solve our energy
issues in this country. (don't get me started!)

I have ran over 10,000 gallons of regular gasoline through my Zenith
CH-300 with a Lyc O-320, 150 horse. This is over the last 21 years and
1700+ hours. I think that the retail pump claims an octane of 87 for
straight gas. I would not be too worried about running a higher
octane, (maybe it is 91 octane?) through a 160 hp Lyc. Volumes have
been written about this, and as always, you are responsible for your
own actions.

I now test every batch of fuel that I buy, and make sure that it does
not contain ethanol. I have two 40 gallon ferry tanks, with an
electric pump for filling the plane, and so far, it has worked out
quite well.

Tim

Zenith CH-300 Driver.

"Tim Hickey" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 18:43:07 -0500, "Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in
address)" wrote:

rich wrote:
... And from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

I would verify that. It's probably dependent on the area of the country
you're in. I think selling non-ethanol gas in Iowa is a capital offense.
I know in New England there were 3 airports getting autogas, but
starting in 2009 the fuel suppliers are going to be adding the ethanol
earlier in the process, so they can't get it from the area distributor.
They would now have to go to Canada to get it which of course makes it
uneconomical.


Non-blended gasoline is widely available in Iowa. The Iowa legislature
took a run at making a requirement that all fuel sold in the state
contains ethanol, but that law did not pass. I am not even sure that
it got further than being a proposal. Our neighbors in Missouri are
not as lucky. All their fuel is blended with 10% ethanol, except for
a premium, higher octane fuel. Which is available, but not all
stations carry it.
Iowa did try to sneak a law past that says that retailers no longer
must post on the pump that a fuel contains ethanol. The theory was
that out of state drivers would see the ethanol label on the pump, and
choose not to use it. This only goes to show how sneaky some lawmakers
can be. Rest assured that I wrote several letters to express my
concern about that.

As a side note, it is beginning to look like the bloom is off the
ethanol rose. It never was a good idea anyway, and we see in the
newspaper here that many ethanol plants are shutting down. Mainly
because the price of corn is so high, but also because demand is down.
Putting ethanol made from corn in our gas will not solve our energy
issues in this country. (don't get me started!)

I have ran over 10,000 gallons of regular gasoline through my Zenith
CH-300 with a Lyc O-320, 150 horse. This is over the last 21 years and
1700+ hours. I think that the retail pump claims an octane of 87 for
straight gas. I would not be too worried about running a higher
octane, (maybe it is 91 octane?) through a 160 hp Lyc. Volumes have
been written about this, and as always, you are responsible for your
own actions.

I now test every batch of fuel that I buy, and make sure that it does
not contain ethanol. I have two 40 gallon ferry tanks, with an
electric pump for filling the plane, and so far, it has worked out
quite well.

Tim

Zenith CH-300 Driver.

How do you test the fuel you are buying? I would be very wary of any auto fuel. I have the auto fuel STC for the c-172,
but I have not been able to find any fuel in the last year or so that is not contaminated with alcohol here in MI.

There is no federal requirement anymore to label pumps that dispense alcohol contaminated gasoline. Are you saying that
Iowa has a specific law that does require this label?

On Fri, 14 Nov 2008 19:15:49 -0500, "Blueskies"
wrote:


How do you test the fuel you are buying? I would be very wary of any auto fuel. I have the auto fuel STC for the c-172,
but I have not been able to find any fuel in the last year or so that is not contaminated with alcohol here in MI.

There is no federal requirement anymore to label pumps that dispense alcohol contaminated gasoline. Are you saying that
Iowa has a specific law that does require this label?

I do the gas plus water test. You can read about it he

http://www.autofuelstc.com/autofuels...hanoltest.html

I do not know about a federal law for labeling pumps. I do know that
some Iowa legislators wanted to pass a bill to pull the labels off of
retail pumps so that people would not know what they are buying. Here
a gallon of regular gas is about 2.05, and a gallon of blended (10%)
fuel is around 1.99. So those who do not care about the cost in
dollars pre mile often buy the cheaper stuff. But they then get less
miles per gallon, and it ends up costing them more. Ethanol blended
fuel get tax subsidies to the tune of close to 50 cents a gallon. It
would never compete in the market without that funding.


Zenith CH-300 Driver.

rich wrote:
right now, avgas is running $2 more a gallon than premium car gas. And
from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

Ethanol content may exist in premium autofuels. There is no systematic
guarantee because you buy "hi test" or "super unleaded"

Ethanol was used to replace MTBE as an oxygenate in fuels. The
oxygenated fuels are driven by EPA and in some cases, state
environmental regs. In my market, ALL mogas is presumed to contain up to
10% ethanol.

Dave
KEFD

"Dave S" wrote in message
...
rich wrote:
right now, avgas is running $2 more a gallon than premium car gas. And
from what I've read, premium auto gas doesn't contain ethonol.

Ethanol content may exist in premium autofuels. There is no systematic
guarantee because you buy "hi test" or "super unleaded"

Ethanol was used to replace MTBE as an oxygenate in fuels. The oxygenated
fuels are driven by EPA and in some cases, state environmental regs. In my
market, ALL mogas is presumed to contain up to 10% ethanol.

Dave
KEFD

Right and, like so much of the other "trash talk" that I heard in the past
year, the argument for oxiginates is about twenty years out of date--even on
a seasonal basis. The reason that it no longer makes any sense is that all
gasolene powered automobiles and light trucks have included oxigen sensors
in the exhaust for at least long--including the last generation of
carburetor equiped veicles. Therefore there are no longer a seasonal, or
weather related, periods of rich and lean operation.

By the same token, there is no longer a reason for seasonal tune-ups since
the engine control systems accomplish that--plus altitude
compensation--continuously.

I will skip the tire issue, as it is less relevant to aviation.

Peter