Boeing Offers Additional F/A-18 Sale to U.S. Navy

It is demanded in the procurement "process" - to get new you must show
that the old is no longer relevant and there
problem is some folks try to help that along




" wrote in message
ups.com...
Interesting theory and I have heard something similar back in 2004 or
2005. I don't know how much of this is true however.

On May 2, 9:41 pm, "Flashnews" wrote:
You know considering how the Navy chose to deliberately go about
destroying anything and everything "old" that would interfere with
their
plan to modernize the Navy - a politically motivated behavior seen in
the demise of the Convair B-58 Hustlers as a retribution act to match
to
the destruction of all the Northrop Flying Wings. I am not so sure
the
Iranians can really get or want those F-14 parts from AMARC (if it
were
even possible) but it is possible that the F-14D could be refurbished
into an even stronger jet that would embarrass first the F/A-18 and
then
much worse the F-35, especially given its failing components and
subsystems. The methodology is all the same - over kill the hype
about
how old and broken the airframe is, selectively shut down spares and
key
component supply, and make the program look like a mess. The F-14D
can
still fly circles around all other Navy fighters and if it would be
given some of the reliability and maintainability upgrades evident in
the E/F as well as the AESA upgrade from the F-35 - well the old
Turkey
would smile a new light on Naval Air. As long as anyone can look
back
the present breed of Naval air leadership is petrified - absolutely
paranoid - of not only that it can't do the Tomcat's job with what's
left but what the F-14 could still grow beyond itself. The demise of
the Tomcat will be the date in which carrier aviation became
unbalanced - with new fast nuclear ships and a weak unsupportive air
wing - thus bringing the submarine one notch closer to replacing the
surface fleet as the critical combatant lead. "Choose Wisely" and
they
did not -

tell that to the carrier group when Chinese cruise missles are coming over
the horizon-- remember the Super Bug's AESA radar still is not working
properly--so......are you tell me a Super Bug with non ASEA radar and
AMRAAMS can handle that--oh--let's make that single seater F-18E .....
are there any drivers who have handled both the F-14D and Super Bug--what's
your view???



"Daryl Hunt" wrote in message
...

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , rstro
writes
sure there is/.........
call ARMARC and get some real airplanes back in the Navy--F-14

Useless gold-plated junk dependent on radar (which never works) and
missiles (worse than useless). How many missile kills in the Korean War?
QED.

The only Three things that our 15 and 16 drivers repected on the F-14 was
the extra set of eyes, the first turn during the wings sweeping forward
and
the Phoenix system that costs way too much to use. The F-35 can out turn
the 14 no matter what, the Superhornet can do the Top Cap with Amrams just
fine and the days of the need for two sets of eyes is all but gone.
Plus,
the 14 was taken out of service because it became too expensive per flying
hour to continue. Too bad, JAG had some nice footage of it.

But let's face it, in it's day, the 14 was the 800 lb gurrilla for Top Cap
over the Carrier Group but age bit it in the ass.


Get *real* aircraft. Re-equip the USN with F6F Hellcats.

I vote for the F3F myself.

On 4 Maj, 05:38, "rstro" wrote:
tell that to the carrier group when Chinese cruise missles are coming over
the horizon-- remember the Super Bug's AESA radar still is not working
properly--so......are you tell me a Super Bug with non ASEA radar and
AMRAAMS can handle that--oh--let's make that single seater F-18E .....
are there any drivers who have handled both the F-14D and Super Bug--what's
your view???

Certainly not a driver of any plane mentioned, but some observations
of mine:
1) Correct - AESA radar may surely be apt to show some deficiencies at
this phase of its introduction. Therefore I belive alternative FLIR/
IRST systems must still be developed.
2) I don't think AIM-54 would be a better solution against balistic or
cruise missiles than newest models of AIM-120, not so speedy, but more
agile, more modern, and you could take more of them with not making
your plane flying like a brick with 5,000 pounds of air-to-air
ordnance.
3) Certainly two-seaters are more capable than single-seat fighters,
but I guess you could find some guys with a lot of experience from
F-14 days in those F/A-18Es;-)
4) Recent years the number of AEGIS ships per a carrier group doubled,
Standard and TBMD programs were run, whereas the size of the air wing
was reduced - so the entire philosophy of defending the Boat must be
different...

wrote:
On 4 Maj, 05:38, "rstro" wrote:

tell that to the carrier group when Chinese cruise missles are coming over
the horizon-- remember the Super Bug's AESA radar still is not working
properly--so......are you tell me a Super Bug with non ASEA radar and
AMRAAMS can handle that--oh--let's make that single seater F-18E .....
are there any drivers who have handled both the F-14D and Super Bug--what's
your view???


Certainly not a driver of any plane mentioned, but some observations
of mine:
1) Correct - AESA radar may surely be apt to show some deficiencies at
this phase of its introduction. Therefore I belive alternative FLIR/
IRST systems must still be developed.

The Super Hornet already has FLIR.

http://www.raytheon.com/products/atflir/
"Raytheon’s Advanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared pod delivers
pinpoint accuracy and NoDoubt™ reliability for air-to-air and
air-to-ground mission support."
....
"Planned enhancements include:"
....
"Automatic target recognition"

Er, well give them a few years to work out the bugs and the super bugs
will be able to automatically alert the pilots should they actually spot
any cruise missiles. No doubt.

-HJC

Nice link. Thanks! I was not aware of the fact that web page was
updated.

But frankly, I am quite surprised: here I'd rather expect to see some
comments that F/A-18 FLIR pods (no matter if AAS-38 NITE Hawk, or this
one) were worth nothing in comparison with Tomcat's LANTIRN ;-)))

Also, part of the Tomcats had IRST (some of F-14A and all F-14D, IIRC)
- similar device to be added in Super Hornets as a part of "Block III"
modification as late as around 2012 or 2013.

What's more, the whole sensor suite is going to be capable to see the
same target when needed.

Best regards,
Jacek

On 4 Maj, 15:03, Henry J Cobb wrote:

The Super Hornet already has FLIR.

http://www.raytheon.com/products/atflir/
"Raytheon’s Advanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared pod delivers
pinpoint accuracy and NoDoubtâ„¢ reliability for air-to-air and
air-to-ground mission support."
...
"Planned enhancements include:"
...
"Automatic target recognition"

Er, well give them a few years to work out the bugs and the super bugs
will be able to automatically alert the pilots should they actually spot
any cruise missiles. No doubt.

-HJC

In article , "rstro"
wrote:

tell that to the carrier group when Chinese cruise missles are coming over
the horizon-- remember the Super Bug's AESA radar still is not working
properly--so......are you tell me a Super Bug with non ASEA radar and
AMRAAMS can handle that--oh--let's make that single seater F-18E .....
are there any drivers who have handled both the F-14D and Super Bug--what's
your view???

While the APG-71 has more radar range than the APG-73 (mechanically scanned
radar), don't sell the APG-73 short. It is well matched to the AIM-120 missile
and while it may not have all the bells and whistles of the AESA radar, the
system performance (against aircraft) of the radar with the missile is
certainly
competitive with the system performance of the APG-71 with the AIM-54.
I realize that statement may drive F-14 lovers to a frenzy, but it's true
nonetheless.
It's the end-game that matters, not the individual performance of one
aspect of the system.
The APG-73 with AIM-120 (IMO without getting technical ) is a better
system than either the APG-71 with AIM-54 (lack of missile flexibility)
or APG-71 with AIM-7 (goodnesss me...where to start...)
When the fleet gets APG-79 things will get even better.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur

In article . com,
wrote:

Nice link. Thanks! I was not aware of the fact that web page was
updated.

But frankly, I am quite surprised: here I'd rather expect to see some
comments that F/A-18 FLIR pods (no matter if AAS-38 NITE Hawk, or this
one) were worth nothing in comparison with Tomcat's LANTIRN ;-)))

Probably because even the F-14 apologists realize that the F/A-18's
ATFLIR has twice the range and 3X better resolution.
2 generations (IIRC) newer FPA technology.

Also, part of the Tomcats had IRST (some of F-14A and all F-14D, IIRC)
- similar device to be added in Super Hornets as a part of "Block III"
modification as late as around 2012 or 2013.

What's more, the whole sensor suite is going to be capable to see the
same target when needed.

--
Harry Andreas
Engineering raconteur