New Transponder Comparison Table

Hi,

I have recently had several inquiries for information comparing the new Trig
TT21 to the Becker ATC 4401. I have created a comparison table he
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/trans...mparison_Table

Let me know if you have any suggestions for improving it.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

Hi, Paul,

Very nice initial effort on the comparison table. One thing - while
you do make it clear that the Trig has a built-in encoder, and you
make clear that those transponders without encoders cost more when you
consider the encoder, you do not show the added current draw that an
encoder will add to the transponder system. Your current figures,
standby and typical, are for the transponder alone. Considering that
an ACK A-30 encoder will draw at least 0.1 amps, and can go as high as
0.4 amps, when you add those to the Becker current figures you can see
just how efficient the Trig TT21 is as a transponder system.

-John

On Sep 11, 11:47 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I have recently had several inquiries for information comparing the new Trig
TT21 to the Becker ATC 4401. I have created a comparison table hehttp://www.cumulus-soaring.com/trans...nder_Compariso...

Let me know if you have any suggestions for improving it.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 22:47:50 -0500, "Paul Remde"
wrote:

Hi,

I have recently had several inquiries for information comparing the new Trig
TT21 to the Becker ATC 4401. I have created a comparison table he
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/trans...mparison_Table

The factory brochure
http://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochure.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying up to
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

thanks

Aldo Cernezzi

Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochure.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying up to
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Hi,

That is an interesting point. I wonder if Trig will update the manual with
changes to the maximum altitude when the first batch of units destined for
the US (after receiving US approvals) ships.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message
...
Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochure.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying up to
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Hi John,

Thanks for the very nice tip. I hadn't thought of adding the altitude
encoder current. It does make the TT21 even more attractive. I will add
that to my comparison table.

When including the current for the altitude encoder the TT21 uses less than
half the current. Wow!

Best Regards,

Paul Remde

"jcarlyle" wrote in message
...
Hi, Paul,

Very nice initial effort on the comparison table. One thing - while
you do make it clear that the Trig has a built-in encoder, and you
make clear that those transponders without encoders cost more when you
consider the encoder, you do not show the added current draw that an
encoder will add to the transponder system. Your current figures,
standby and typical, are for the transponder alone. Considering that
an ACK A-30 encoder will draw at least 0.1 amps, and can go as high as
0.4 amps, when you add those to the Becker current figures you can see
just how efficient the Trig TT21 is as a transponder system.

-John

On Sep 11, 11:47 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I have recently had several inquiries for information comparing the new
Trig
TT21 to the Becker ATC 4401. I have created a comparison table
hehttp://www.cumulus-soaring.com/trans...nder_Compariso...

Let me know if you have any suggestions for improving it.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

On Sep 12, 6:49*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

That is an interesting point. *I wonder if Trig will update the manual with
changes to the maximum altitude when the first batch of units destined for
the US (after receiving US approvals) ships.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message

...

Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochure.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying up to
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Unless I am missing something the TT21 is a "Class 2 Level 2"
transponder. The Class 2 part that means it is technically limited to
15,000' and VFR. With 130W nominal (**at the connector**) these
transponders are clearly not intended to meet the 125W ERP (Effective
Radiated Power) requirement requirement for Class 1 (above 15,000'
use).

It is anybody's guess what the "Altitude 35,000'" in the spec tables
in the documentation is supposed to mean. It is an sloppily written
spec, either way is it "Maximum Altitude?" Maximum for what? It could
be the maximum operating altitude of the electronics, ignoring the
transponder is technically not certified for use above 15,000'. It
could be the maximum range of the altitude encoder. It is anybody's
guess what it means.

This certified altitude Class 1 vs. Class 2 issue has been discussed
here before, it is something that should not be driving decisions
IMNSHO. The important thing is to install and use a transponder in
areas of high traffic/mixed jet traffic (like around Reno) and the
Trigg TT21 looks an excellent choice.

Darryl

On Sep 12, 9:12*am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:49*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:



Hi,

That is an interesting point. *I wonder if Trig will update the manual with
changes to the maximum altitude when the first batch of units destined for
the US (after receiving US approvals) ships.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message

....

Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochure.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying up to
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Unless I am missing something the TT21 is a "Class 2 Level 2"
transponder. The Class 2 part that means it is technically limited to
15,000' and VFR. With 130W nominal (**at the connector**) these
transponders are clearly not intended to meet the 125W ERP (Effective
Radiated Power) requirement requirement for Class 1 (above 15,000'
use).

It is anybody's guess what the "Altitude 35,000'" in the spec tables
in the documentation is supposed to mean. It is an sloppily written
spec, either way is it "Maximum Altitude?" Maximum for what? It could
be the maximum operating altitude of the electronics, ignoring the
transponder is technically not certified for use above 15,000'. It
could be the maximum range of the altitude encoder. It is anybody's
guess what it means.

This certified altitude Class 1 vs. Class 2 issue has been discussed
here before, it is *something that should not be driving decisions
IMNSHO. The important thing is to install and use a transponder in
areas of high traffic/mixed jet traffic (like around Reno) and the
Trigg TT21 looks an excellent choice.

Darryl

Oops I should have said 125 W peak power not ERP.

Darryl

As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK


At 16:36 12 September 2009, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 12, 9:12=A0am, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Sep 12, 6:49=A0am, "Paul Remde" wrote:



Hi,

That is an interesting point. =A0I wonder if Trig will update the
manua=
l with
changes to the maximum altitude when the first batch of units
destined
=
for
the US (after receiving US approvals) ships.

Best Regards,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.

"jcarlyle" wrote in message


..=
..

Don't know European rules, but the Trig TT21 installation manual
says
in Table 3.1 that the altitude is 35,000 feet.

-John

On Sep 12, 8:08 am, cernauta wrote:
The factory
brochurehttp://www.trig-avionics.com/library/tt21brochur=
e.pdf
indicates that this Class 2 Transponder complies with the
European
rules for "flying below 15.000 ft". Was it certified for flying
up
t=
o
35.000 ft in the US? Lucky guys...

Unless I am missing something the TT21 is a "Class 2 Level 2"
transponder. The Class 2 part that means it is technically limited to
15,000' and VFR. With 130W nominal (**at the connector**) these
transponders are clearly not intended to meet the 125W ERP (Effective
Radiated Power) requirement requirement for Class 1 (above 15,000'
use).

It is anybody's guess what the "Altitude 35,000'" in the spec
tables
in the documentation is supposed to mean. It is an sloppily written
spec, either way is it "Maximum Altitude?" Maximum for what? It
could
be the maximum operating altitude of the electronics, ignoring the
transponder is technically not certified for use above 15,000'. It
could be the maximum range of the altitude encoder. It is anybody's
guess what it means.

This certified altitude Class 1 vs. Class 2 issue has been discussed
here before, it is =A0something that should not be driving decisions
IMNSHO. The important thing is to install and use a transponder in
areas of high traffic/mixed jet traffic (like around Reno) and the
Trigg TT21 looks an excellent choice.

Darryl

Oops I should have said 125 W peak power not ERP.

Darryl

If you are thinking of buying a transponder, Paul, you should buy a mode S
transponder. You are correct that a lot of the ATC units you may contact
will not be Mode S equipped, but they will still recieve the mode A and
mode C (4 digit assigned code and altitude). Buying a non-mode S
transponder would be a waste of money, as you will need it to enter
certain areas and types of airspace in the UK. A transponder mandatory
zone means a mode S transponder mandatory zone.

At 19:15 12 September 2009, Andy Melville wrote:
As a very uneducated pilot,following Paul Remdes suggestions, I was
considering buying a Transponder mode S but then various people said
local
airports didnt have mode S yet so it woulld be a waste of time for some
time to come..is this true?
If I buy mode S can it be accessed/ used by the current systems?
Some easy to understand stuff would be most welcome!
Regards from UK