More Sportplanes Hype

Well I just came across another piece of advertising masquerading as an
article in Private Pilot magazine.

The author goes up on a short hop in a Sting Sport, another plastic topy
ariplane from the Czech Republic and he's raving about it like it's the
biggest thing since sliced bread. He even managed to paraphrase the famous
Neil Armstrong quote about "small steps for man...giant steps for mankind."
Man oh man.

And this "giant step" of a sportplane has a price that starts at $89,900.

Just for comparison, you can go out an buy a fully certified American
Champion Citabria for $90,900. This is a real airplane with none of the
restrictions that apply to the toy sportplanes. It has a real Lycoming O-235
that has a TBO of 2400 hours. It has a gross weight of 1750 pounds, which is
500 pounds more than this plastic toy sportplane.

Yet this sportplane is supposed to be some kind of bargain? How is it that
American Champion can build a certified airplane in the US at the same price
as a sportplane, if building a small airplane is so expensive?

I rest my case. If anyone really thinks these sportplanes are a great deal
and not way overpriced I have nothing further to say.

Regards,

Gordon.

Gordon,

I think that there is alot of price gouging going on around the sport
pilot qualified planes. Have you checked the recent asking price of 415
C ercoupes? Last year you could buy all you wanted for 12 to $15,000.
They have one listed now at Barnstormers for $34,000 most are in the 22
to 27,000 range.

Frank M.Hitlaw
Jakarta,Indonesia

Gordon Arnaut wrote:
Well I just came across another piece of advertising masquerading as an
article in Private Pilot magazine.



Gordon, remind us again what it is that you have built or fly or own?

Jerry

wrote in message
oups.com...
Gordon,

I think that there is alot of price gouging going on around the sport
pilot qualified planes. Have you checked the recent asking price of 415
C ercoupes? Last year you could buy all you wanted for 12 to $15,000.
They have one listed now at Barnstormers for $34,000 most are in the 22
to 27,000 range.

Frank M.Hitlaw
Jakarta,Indonesia


I think the phrase price gouging may be a little harsh. It's called supply
and demand. If LSA class planes are bringing a premium then the EAA was
right in their belief that there were a bunch of folks out there that didn't
want to or couldn't get physicals and still want to fly.

Hype or not, I think the problem is going to be self-correcting.

Thirty years ago, Kurt Vonnegut wrote a short story called "Harrison Bergeron,"
about a future where those with better-than-average capabilities had to be
handicapped to make them no more able than everyone else.

(http://instruct.westvalley.edu/lafave/hb.html)

This is the situation we're at with SLSAs. The restrictions of the category
limit the abilities of the aircraft so that there's no special difference in
performance between different LSAs.

After all, how are airplanes traditionally marketed?

1. "Our airplane cruises faster than the competition"
2. "Our airplane carries more payload than the competition"
3. "Our airplane has a longer range than the competition"
4. "Our airplane carries more passengers than the competition"

LSA marketers can't use #1...after all, they're limited to 120 knots, flat-out.

LSA marketers will find little use out of #2... gross weights are limited to
1320 pounds. Depending on how they can squirrel down the empty weight, they
might get a 50 or 100 pound improvement over the competition, but that's not
really enough to hang a marketing campaign on

LSA customers aren't likely to use range as a selection criteria. These planes
aren't really intended for long cross-countries.

And LSAs are limited to just two seats.

So...when no plane can exhibit superior performance over its competition, how
are buyers going to chose?

Simple. With little else to choose between competing LSAs, customers are going
to pick the one that sells at the lowest cost. Why buy a $90,000 SLSA when a
$85,000 one gives the same capability? Why buy that $85,000 one, when you can
get practically the same thing from another company for $80,000?

I realize things are slightly more complex. Some planes may be more attractive
in appearance, others might have more cabin room, some purchasers may be willing
to pay more for a more-familiar engine, some may want niche abilities such as
STOL, and there's of course the taildragger/milkstool decision. But my guess is
that a $20,000 lower selling price will overcome any casual preferences.

In short: the LSA market is going to be dominated by price. I suspect we're
going to see some pretty good sales going on by next Sun-N-Fun.

If a company *can* produce a $50,000 SLSA like Gordon insists is possible, they
will *own* the market. Without the ability to show a clear advantage for the
money, competitors will have to either match prices or get out of the business.

Ron Wanttaja

This isn't about me, Springer.

It's about the price-gouging we're seeing in the sportplane business -- and
the cheerleading we see from the magazines.

But since you are interested in me personally -- I strongly considered
buying a new Tecnam. I decided not to because as nice a plane as it is, I
don't think it is worth anywhere near $100,000.

So I will probably build something myself that I can fly from my farm strip
north of Toronto. I've been looking at several different designs and have
spent a bit of time at the drawing board myself.

I have no desire to get involved in any kind of entrepreneurial venture --
airplanes or otherwise. I think there are people out there with viable
businesses and lots of experience who are well-positioned to enter into such
a venture if they desire. I think we will see that happen and I really think
we will see some very attractively priced sportplanes down the road.

I've put this issue up for discussion because I believe there are lots of
people interested in this -- and indeed many here have expressed interesting
opinions and observations. (And only a few sour grapes posts attacking the
messenger).

Regards,

Gordon.





"Jerry Springer" wrote in message
...
Gordon Arnaut wrote:
Well I just came across another piece of advertising masquerading as an
article in Private Pilot magazine.



Gordon, remind us again what it is that you have built or fly or own?

Jerry

The Sting is a very nice airplane. But the price has gone up about
$30k since Sport Pilot got approved. It's a case of whatever the market
will bear. And it will apparently bear a lot at this point for those who
wish to continue flying and need SP to do so.

I'm afraid "toy airplanes" are going to be the wave of the future
for those who wish to fly economically. But I think that something
under $40k will be the hot item.



"Gordon Arnaut" wrote in message
...
Well I just came across another piece of advertising masquerading as an
article in Private Pilot magazine.

The author goes up on a short hop in a Sting Sport, another plastic topy
ariplane from the Czech Republic and he's raving about it like it's the
biggest thing since sliced bread. He even managed to paraphrase the famous
Neil Armstrong quote about "small steps for man...giant steps for
mankind." Man oh man.

And this "giant step" of a sportplane has a price that starts at $89,900.

Just for comparison, you can go out an buy a fully certified American
Champion Citabria for $90,900. This is a real airplane with none of the
restrictions that apply to the toy sportplanes. It has a real Lycoming
O-235 that has a TBO of 2400 hours. It has a gross weight of 1750 pounds,
which is 500 pounds more than this plastic toy sportplane.

Yet this sportplane is supposed to be some kind of bargain? How is it that
American Champion can build a certified airplane in the US at the same
price as a sportplane, if building a small airplane is so expensive?

I rest my case. If anyone really thinks these sportplanes are a great deal
and not way overpriced I have nothing further to say.

Regards,

Gordon.

Jerry Springer wrote:


Gordon, remind us again what it is that you have built or fly or own?

----------------------------------------------------

On the AirVW Group, after showing us how much he doesn't know about VW
engines, Gordon said he'd be building an RW-11 (one of Roger Mann's
designs) powered by an O-84 GPU engine... real soon now.

Now he's showing us how much he doesn't know about economics. Lucky us
:-)

-R.S.Hoover

Oh yeah, the "other" Bob Hoover, another sore loser from past disputes about
technical matters. Just like Springer and some of the other heel-nippers who
think it's cute to launch some kind of pathetic little darts at me, rather
than engage in discussion of the topic at hand.

Of course, they're not used to actually engaging in meaningful discussion.
They only come here for pointless banter and adolescent guffaws.

What exactly is your point Hoover? Oh, you don't have one? Gee I didn't
think so.

Regards,

Gordon.




wrote in message
oups.com...

Jerry Springer wrote:


Gordon, remind us again what it is that you have built or fly or own?

----------------------------------------------------

On the AirVW Group, after showing us how much he doesn't know about VW
engines, Gordon said he'd be building an RW-11 (one of Roger Mann's
designs) powered by an O-84 GPU engine... real soon now.

Now he's showing us how much he doesn't know about economics. Lucky us
:-)

-R.S.Hoover

As much as I really hate to find agreement with Gordon, he has a point
of dollar for dollar cost. However, I'd like to take him up on his
last few words of his first post.