Region 12 contest cancelled ....

On Sep 2, 4:32*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

" I'm afraid the good old days are gone forever."


It's sad to hear that JJ. But things can change on a dime, just like
weather forecasts, the stock market and even enthusiasm in our sport.


I was the key organizer for the Region 10 North contest last year. We
gave lots of thought into what it would take to host our first
contest. Financially speaking, IMHO, you only need 5 contestants to
enter a race to have it pay for itself and meet minimum entrant
requirements. Not speaking to you JJ, but speaking to other clubs
across the country, I'm shocked that more people don't see it this
way.

For instance, I'm a part of a group of 5 pilots who meets up typically
every other week. We call a task, race each other, and run the scores
through WinScore. We grid our gliders, have a safety briefing, then
chow down on a combo of BBQ fixings and a shmorgishborg potluck. As
the cumulus clouds are popping, we jam our throats with what's left
and fire up the towplane. It's no different than a typical day at a
contest and costs 1 tow for each person. When we're done, we sit
around the hanger, have a so-called winners speach over an ice cold
beverage and look forward to the next time. If we wanted to do it 6
days in a row, we'd have to scrounge up a thousand bucks to
technically call it a contest and have our scores factored in to the
glider pilot ranking.

For the Region 10 Contest we organized, a 200 dollar entry fee, and
pay for each tow option as defined in the contest handbook, we were at
break even with 5 contestants. 5 X 200 = 1,000 bucks. With that you
can pay your insurance, SSA sanctioning fee, welcome meal on the first
night, cost for a contest website and your basically set! Have the
towpilots volunteer, get some of the crew to run wings (they'll enjoy
feeling involved) and stay away from wasteful spending. T-shirts,
Banner's, extravagant winner gifts, trophies, etc can all be added to
the budget as more people pay the 200 dollar entry fee. It takes
getting creative, thinking outside the box and using all available
resources.

Our club did this and we profited handsomely, $6,000 take home from
slightly less than 20 competitors. When you add a few bucks to the
cost of meals, t-shirts, aeroretrieves, RV hookups, and all optional
extra's, it really really add's up. Again, we charged the standard
200 entry and 48/aerotow. 20 competitors times 200 dollar entry fee
is 4,000 dollars. Nobody is required to buy a t-shirt, nobody is
required to do an aeroretrieve. Granted it was our first contest, so
we really penny pinched because many other clubs had told us how these
contests can suck all your money away. Not with us. We even added an
extra free meal and paid for some unexpected costs. You don't need a
big tent, use an awing from someones RV, or an open hanger. You don't
need to rent portapotties for a small contest, use what you would
normally use.

The result from our well thought through contest? One club member,
bought his own racing glider afterwards in excitement. Other members
set new goals in their soaring adventures to attend races. And the
money earned was poured back into our club. The Memphis Soaring
Society has grown since then and I honestly believe this contest
contributed to that.


I hate to see a contest cancelled, when ours was just sooo
profitable. IMHO it just doesn't have to be that way. Low attendance
just means fun in a different way - less competition for a higher
chance of winning perhaps! The glass is half FULL.


Maybe I should write an article detailing exactly how we did this...

Scott,

Really nice e-mail. Thanks for the perspective.

Just to add another datapoint to the discussion, down in Houston the two
area clubs are hosting a (non-sanctioned) series of 3-day contests...one
club hosts Memorial Day weekend, the other Labor Day.

Greater Houston Soaring (my club) hosted the 1st one last Memorial Day.
We charged $30 entry fee (remember this was not sanctioned, so no sanction
fee to pay), and everyone just paid for their tows. For the entry fee,
you received two free meals (one BBQ, and the other hamburgers lovingly
grilled to perfection by some of our club members).

We had anywhere from 8-12 competitors (if I remember correctly, and it
varied a bit from day to day). I'm sure you can imagine with only $30
entry fee that the club didn't exactly have a windfall profit. In fact,
we probably ate the cost of one of the meals, plus the trophies. However,
depending on how you amortize towplane maintenance expenses, you might
make the argument that the extra tow revenue allowed us to break even. In
any case, with a $50 entry fee, we probably could have covered all the
expenses and turned a (modest) profit off the tow revenue.

If we wanted to break even, and pay the sanctioning fee, that's where the
extra $170 (gap between what we charged and the "typical" contest fee)
comes in.

This is not to argue with anyone here. Just to second Scott's assertion
that contests can be "big and expensive" where you need many competitors
to cover the fixed costs, or they can be "small and cheap" more like a
typical weekend at the club, but with just a bit of extra structure and
planning.

As far as results, at least 4 of our club members have bought new racing
ships since the contest (one was a syndicate of 3), one member who hadn't
flown much in years pulled his Cirrus out of the box and had a good enough
time that flew at the Region 10 South in Llano last month. I'm sure that
some of this would have happened even without our little contest, but the
enthusiasm that was generated had to have contributed to this positive
outcome. In addition, many members who don't normally get to experience a
contest did, and I'm sure this "planted a seed" for some that will
eventually grow.

One final note for the competitors. Since this was not a sanctioned
contest and was much more of a "low key" affair, we had some of the most
experienced pilots in the area there giving very detailed strategy
sessions and really working with the newbies (like me) to get them up to
speed for future contests.

Altogether, I think it was a very worthwhile thing. The club at least
didn't lose any money, new contest pilots gained experience and received
(practically free) instruction from some very experienced competitors, and
many club members got to experience what a contest is like and hopefully
will progress towards one day flying a contest themselves.

--Stefan



On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 01:27:22 -0500, Scott Alexander
wrote:

On Sep 2, 4:32 pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

" I'm afraid the good old days are gone forever."


It's sad to hear that JJ. But things can change on a dime, just like
weather forecasts, the stock market and even enthusiasm in our sport.


I was the key organizer for the Region 10 North contest last year. We
gave lots of thought into what it would take to host our first
contest. Financially speaking, IMHO, you only need 5 contestants to
enter a race to have it pay for itself and meet minimum entrant
requirements. Not speaking to you JJ, but speaking to other clubs
across the country, I'm shocked that more people don't see it this
way.

For instance, I'm a part of a group of 5 pilots who meets up typically
every other week. We call a task, race each other, and run the scores
through WinScore. We grid our gliders, have a safety briefing, then
chow down on a combo of BBQ fixings and a shmorgishborg potluck. As
the cumulus clouds are popping, we jam our throats with what's left
and fire up the towplane. It's no different than a typical day at a
contest and costs 1 tow for each person. When we're done, we sit
around the hanger, have a so-called winners speach over an ice cold
beverage and look forward to the next time. If we wanted to do it 6
days in a row, we'd have to scrounge up a thousand bucks to
technically call it a contest and have our scores factored in to the
glider pilot ranking.

For the Region 10 Contest we organized, a 200 dollar entry fee, and
pay for each tow option as defined in the contest handbook, we were at
break even with 5 contestants. 5 X 200 = 1,000 bucks. With that you
can pay your insurance, SSA sanctioning fee, welcome meal on the first
night, cost for a contest website and your basically set! Have the
towpilots volunteer, get some of the crew to run wings (they'll enjoy
feeling involved) and stay away from wasteful spending. T-shirts,
Banner's, extravagant winner gifts, trophies, etc can all be added to
the budget as more people pay the 200 dollar entry fee. It takes
getting creative, thinking outside the box and using all available
resources.

Our club did this and we profited handsomely, $6,000 take home from
slightly less than 20 competitors. When you add a few bucks to the
cost of meals, t-shirts, aeroretrieves, RV hookups, and all optional
extra's, it really really add's up. Again, we charged the standard
200 entry and 48/aerotow. 20 competitors times 200 dollar entry fee
is 4,000 dollars. Nobody is required to buy a t-shirt, nobody is
required to do an aeroretrieve. Granted it was our first contest, so
we really penny pinched because many other clubs had told us how these
contests can suck all your money away. Not with us. We even added an
extra free meal and paid for some unexpected costs. You don't need a
big tent, use an awing from someones RV, or an open hanger. You don't
need to rent portapotties for a small contest, use what you would
normally use.

The result from our well thought through contest? One club member,
bought his own racing glider afterwards in excitement. Other members
set new goals in their soaring adventures to attend races. And the
money earned was poured back into our club. The Memphis Soaring
Society has grown since then and I honestly believe this contest
contributed to that.


I hate to see a contest cancelled, when ours was just sooo
profitable. IMHO it just doesn't have to be that way. Low attendance
just means fun in a different way - less competition for a higher
chance of winning perhaps! The glass is half FULL.


Maybe I should write an article detailing exactly how we did this...


--
Stefan Murry

On Sep 3, 11:54*pm, "S. Murry" wrote:
Scott,

Really nice e-mail. *Thanks for the perspective.

Just to add another datapoint to the discussion, down in Houston the two *
area clubs are hosting a (non-sanctioned) series of 3-day contests...one *
club hosts Memorial Day weekend, the other Labor Day.

Greater Houston Soaring (my club) hosted the 1st one last Memorial Day. *
We charged $30 entry fee (remember this was not sanctioned, so no sanction *
fee to pay), and everyone just paid for their tows. *For the entry fee, *
you received two free meals (one BBQ, and the other hamburgers lovingly *
grilled to perfection by some of our club members).

We had anywhere from 8-12 competitors (if I remember correctly, and it *
varied a bit from day to day). *I'm sure you can imagine with only $30 *
entry fee that the club didn't exactly have a windfall profit. *In fact, *
we probably ate the cost of one of the meals, plus the trophies. *However, *
depending on how you amortize towplane maintenance expenses, you might *
make the argument that the extra tow revenue allowed us to break even. *In *
any case, with a $50 entry fee, we probably could have covered all the *
expenses and turned a (modest) profit off the tow revenue.

If we wanted to break even, and pay the sanctioning fee, that's where the *
extra $170 (gap between what we charged and the "typical" contest fee) *
comes in.

This is not to argue with anyone here. *Just to second Scott's assertion *
that contests can be "big and expensive" where you need many competitors *
to cover the fixed costs, or they can be "small and cheap" more like a *
typical weekend at the club, but with just a bit of extra structure and *
planning.

As far as results, at least 4 of our club members have bought new racing *
ships since the contest (one was a syndicate of 3), one member who hadn't *
flown much in years pulled his Cirrus out of the box and had a good enough *
time that flew at the Region 10 South in Llano last month. *I'm sure that *
some of this would have happened even without our little contest, but the *
enthusiasm that was generated had to have contributed to this positive *
outcome. *In addition, many members who don't normally get to experience a *
contest did, and I'm sure this "planted a seed" for some that will *
eventually grow.

One final note for the competitors. *Since this was not a sanctioned *
contest and was much more of a "low key" affair, we had some of the most *
experienced pilots in the area there giving very detailed strategy *
sessions and really working with the newbies (like me) to get them up to *
speed for future contests.

Altogether, I think it was a very worthwhile thing. *The club at least *
didn't lose any money, new contest pilots gained experience and received *
(practically free) instruction from some very experienced competitors, and *
many club members got to experience what a contest is like and hopefully *
will progress towards one day flying a contest themselves.

--Stefan

On Sun, 04 Sep 2011 01:27:22 -0500, Scott Alexander *





wrote:
On Sep 2, 4:32 pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

" I'm afraid the good old days are gone forever."

It's sad to hear that JJ. *But things can change on a dime, just like
weather forecasts, the stock market and even enthusiasm in our sport.

I was the key organizer for the Region 10 North contest last year. *We
gave lots of thought into what it would take to host our first
contest. *Financially speaking, IMHO, you only need 5 contestants to
enter a race to have it pay for itself and meet minimum entrant
requirements. *Not speaking to you JJ, but speaking to other clubs
across the country, I'm shocked that more people don't see it this
way.

For instance, I'm a part of a group of 5 pilots who meets up typically
every other week. *We call a task, race each other, and run the scores
through WinScore. *We grid our gliders, have a safety briefing, then
chow down on a combo of BBQ fixings and a shmorgishborg potluck. *As
the cumulus clouds are popping, we jam our throats with what's left
and fire up the towplane. *It's no different than a typical day at a
contest and costs 1 tow for each person. *When we're done, we sit
around the hanger, have a so-called winners speach over an ice cold
beverage and look forward to the next time. *If we wanted to do it 6
days in a row, we'd have to scrounge up a thousand bucks to
technically call it a contest and have our scores factored in to the
glider pilot ranking.

For the Region 10 Contest we organized, a 200 dollar entry fee, and
pay for each tow option as defined in the contest handbook, we were at
break even with 5 contestants. *5 X 200 = 1,000 bucks. *With that you
can pay your insurance, SSA sanctioning fee, welcome meal on the first
night, cost for a contest website and your basically set! *Have the
towpilots volunteer, get some of the crew to run wings (they'll enjoy
feeling involved) and stay away from wasteful spending. *T-shirts,
Banner's, extravagant winner gifts, trophies, etc can all be added to
the budget as more people pay the 200 dollar entry fee. *It takes
getting creative, thinking outside the box and using all available
resources.

Our club did this and we profited handsomely, $6,000 take home from
slightly less than 20 competitors. *When you add a few bucks to the
cost of meals, t-shirts, aeroretrieves, RV hookups, and all optional
extra's, it really really add's up. *Again, we charged the standard
200 entry and 48/aerotow. *20 competitors times 200 dollar entry fee
is 4,000 dollars. *Nobody is required to buy a t-shirt, nobody is
required to do an aeroretrieve. *Granted it was our first contest, so
we really penny pinched because many other clubs had told us how these
contests can suck all your money away. *Not with us. *We even added an
extra free meal and paid for some unexpected costs. *You don't need a
big tent, use an awing from someones RV, or an open hanger. *You don't
need to rent portapotties for a small contest, use what you would
normally use.

The result from our well thought through contest? *One club member,
bought his own racing glider afterwards in excitement. *Other members
set new goals in their soaring adventures to attend races. *And the
money earned was poured back into our club. *The Memphis Soaring
Society has grown since then and I honestly believe this contest
contributed to that.

I hate to see a contest cancelled, when ours was just sooo
profitable. *IMHO it just doesn't have to be that way. *Low attendance
just means fun in a different way - less competition for a higher
chance of winning perhaps! *The glass is half FULL.

Maybe I should write an article detailing exactly how we did this...

--
Stefan Murry- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I'm with you guys (Stef & Scot) and that's what we do at Air Sailing.
We own 2 Pawnees and only charge $25-$35 a tow, have a club house with
showers, BBQ, etc. The soaring in July is consistently good year after
year.The big problem is when tow pilots, tow planes and contest
personnel must be brought in with ferry expences + lodging + paying
the CD and/or CM. Parowan is a good example, there is usually 1 tow
ship there, everything else must be brought in. I believe we has 13
this year and I know the contest lost money and the CD & CM didn't get
anything but lodging paid. Hard to expect managers to sign up for more
of that, isn't it?
Cheers,
JJ.

Well said Stefan.

Likewise, GTA contests cost 5 bucks.....not a typo, only five bucks!
The 5 bucks goes towards the website fee. This is a Georgia,
Tennessee, Alabama weekend race circuit. BYOB, no trophies, all
scored on winscore, safety briefing, weather briefing, sign an
insurance waiver, and have proof of your own insurance. etc. You pay
each tow which varies from site to site. If it's more than 10
gliders, and you only have 1 towplane? Then call a shorter task and
brief everyone to be ready for quick turnarounds with the towplane.

If contest costs get out of hand (like ferrying in a towplane from
over a thousand miles away, because he's your best friend!) then plan
on seeing less and less contests. Time to handover the checkbook to
the penny pinchers!

On Sep 4, 1:27*am, Scott Alexander
wrote:
On Sep 2, 4:32*pm, JJ Sinclair wrote:

" I'm afraid the good old days are gone forever."

It's sad to hear that JJ. *But things can change on a dime, just like
weather forecasts, the stock market and even enthusiasm in our sport.

I was the key organizer for the Region 10 North contest last year. *We
gave lots of thought into what it would take to host our first
contest. *Financially speaking, IMHO, you only need 5 contestants to
enter a race to have it pay for itself and meet minimum entrant
requirements. *Not speaking to you JJ, but speaking to other clubs
across the country, I'm shocked that more people don't see it this
way.

For instance, I'm a part of a group of 5 pilots who meets up typically
every other week. *We call a task, race each other, and run the scores
through WinScore. *We grid our gliders, have a safety briefing, then
chow down on a combo of BBQ fixings and a shmorgishborg potluck. *As
the cumulus clouds are popping, we jam our throats with what's left
and fire up the towplane. *It's no different than a typical day at a
contest and costs 1 tow for each person. *When we're done, we sit
around the hanger, have a so-called winners speach over an ice cold
beverage and look forward to the next time. *If we wanted to do it 6
days in a row, we'd have to scrounge up a thousand bucks to
technically call it a contest and have our scores factored in to the
glider pilot ranking.

For the Region 10 Contest we organized, a 200 dollar entry fee, and
pay for each tow option as defined in the contest handbook, we were at
break even with 5 contestants. *5 X 200 = 1,000 bucks. *With that you
can pay your insurance, SSA sanctioning fee, welcome meal on the first
night, cost for a contest website and your basically set! *Have the
towpilots volunteer, get some of the crew to run wings (they'll enjoy
feeling involved) and stay away from wasteful spending. *T-shirts,
Banner's, extravagant winner gifts, trophies, etc can all be added to
the budget as more people pay the 200 dollar entry fee. *It takes
getting creative, thinking outside the box and using all available
resources.

Our club did this and we profited handsomely, $6,000 take home from
slightly less than 20 competitors. *When you add a few bucks to the
cost of meals, t-shirts, aeroretrieves, RV hookups, and all optional
extra's, it really really add's up. *Again, we charged the standard
200 entry and 48/aerotow. *20 competitors times 200 dollar entry fee
is 4,000 dollars. *Nobody is required to buy a t-shirt, nobody is
required to do an aeroretrieve. *Granted it was our first contest, so
we really penny pinched because many other clubs had told us how these
contests can suck all your money away. *Not with us. *We even added an
extra free meal and paid for some unexpected costs. *You don't need a
big tent, use an awing from someones RV, or an open hanger. *You don't
need to rent portapotties for a small contest, use what you would
normally use.

The result from our well thought through contest? *One club member,
bought his own racing glider afterwards in excitement. *Other members
set new goals in their soaring adventures to attend races. *And the
money earned was poured back into our club. *The Memphis Soaring
Society has grown since then and I honestly believe this contest
contributed to that.

I hate to see a contest cancelled, when ours was just sooo
profitable. *IMHO it just doesn't have to be that way. *Low attendance
just means fun in a different way - less competition for a higher
chance of winning perhaps! *The glass is half FULL.

Maybe I should write an article detailing exactly how we did this...

Scott .. This is an EXCELLENT commentary on the issue!!!!!!!! ... and
Memphis 2010 Reg 10 was an awesome contest!

Curt - 95

On Aug 28, 4:36*pm, Ron Gleason wrote:
Just saw on the SSA website that the R12 contest has been cancelled.
Anyone know the story and reason(s)? *Just curious as I was thinking
of attending at one point but could not rearrange my schedule

Ron Gleason

Mainly canceled for lack of participation. My opinion is R12 has lost
the "contest culture" with OLC filling the need for both up coming and
older contest pilots. The learning benefit from getting 25 pilots in a
room breaking bread together for 5 days of shared tasks has been
forgotten by the old...to the decrement of the new contest pilot. I
tend to reject the "bad location" argument as Warner Springs/Sky
Sailing gave R12 a strong push for two years in a very family friendly
location with no better attendance results than we projected for IYK.
For flying, IYK is fantastic, just look at OLC.

Perhaps the best idea is to hold non-sanctioned 1-2 day contests at
the various R12 sites until a new region wide group of pilots emerges
who would be interested in feeding into a bigger event. Avenal and
the DDD are good local examples of well attended low cost events which
can be replicated at other locations.

If you live in R12, you may have to travel far to experience a good
contest...and it is worth it.

Larry Tuohino
IYK Contest Organizer

As a relative newcomer to the sport, my 2 cents on why there's a general decline in participation in contest soaring is that there is a general lack of a structure and interest of "passing XC knowledge" along in the soaring community to new guys. Folks just want to go to the gliderport on Saturday, assemble and fly, and I can't necessarily blame them.

Frank Paynter detailed many of these problems very precisely in the latest issue of Soaring Magazine in the Condor column. Go read it...I've encountered most of the problems he highlights and in fact have communicated with him about my experiences and thoughts.

I started a thread about obtaining XC instruction a while back on this forum in search of info. Sure, it's out there commercially if I want to drop 3 grand (plus airfare and expenses) for a week's instruction....or if I want to trailer my rig 1/2 way across country I might be able to attend some "XC camps"...but why shouldn't we be able to obtain some of this knowledge "locally" (or regionally) or perhaps by doing some online training sponsored by the SSA? I don't want to "learn under fire" by participating in a actual contest without picking up basic skills to keep me out of trouble first.

You want more contest participation? Get more guys comfortable with leaving the local area and going XC and I'll bet contest participation will increase as well.

I'm not anywhere near ready to fly a contest yet...but I want to be! But, from my perspective, it appears the barriers to "getting there" on developing good XC skills currently require a level of commitment (in time and money) that many weekend flyers look at...and walk away from.

Frank's article confirms this and offers some thoughts on fixing it (Condor)...but that won't solve all the problems. Maybe every Region should sponsor a Thermal/XC course for newbies (something like the folks up at Air Sailing put on) before each contest season????? Sounds like a good idea to me..


RS

What is stopping you from following one of the more experienced pilots as he
goes out on a task? What stops you from asking questions?

When I was learning to "cut the cord", that's what I did. Some of the
pilots were real snobs and had no time to talk with inexperienced guys,
others were open, friendly, and helpful. Find them. Don't let the lack of
"cross country instruction" keep you from enjoying the benefits!


"RAS56" wrote in message
...

As a relative newcomer to the sport, my 2 cents on why there's a general
decline in participation in contest soaring is that there is a general
lack of a structure and interest of "passing XC knowledge" along in the
soaring community to new guys. Folks just want to go to the gliderport
on Saturday, assemble and fly, and I can't necessarily blame them.

Frank Paynter detailed many of these problems very precisely in the
latest issue of Soaring Magazine in the Condor column. Go read it...I've
encountered most of the problems he highlights and in fact have
communicated with him about my experiences and thoughts.

I started a thread about obtaining XC instruction a while back on this
forum in search of info. Sure, it's out there commercially if I want to
drop 3 grand (plus airfare and expenses) for a week's instruction....or
if I want to trailer my rig 1/2 way across country I might be able to
attend some "XC camps"...but why shouldn't we be able to obtain some of
this knowledge "locally" (or regionally) or perhaps by doing some online
training sponsored by the SSA? I don't want to "learn under fire" by
participating in a actual contest without picking up basic skills to
keep me out of trouble first.

You want more contest participation? Get more guys comfortable with
leaving the local area and going XC and I'll bet contest participation
will increase as well.

I'm not anywhere near ready to fly a contest yet...but I want to be!
But, from my perspective, it appears the barriers to "getting there" on
developing good XC skills currently require a level of commitment (in
time and money) that many weekend flyers look at...and walk away from.

Frank's article confirms this and offers some thoughts on fixing it
(Condor)...but that won't solve all the problems. Maybe every Region
should sponsor a Thermal/XC course for newbies (something like the folks
up at Air Sailing put on) before each contest season????? Sounds like a
good idea to me..


RS




--
RAS56

On 07/09/2011 02:32, RAS56 wrote:
As a relative newcomer to the sport, my 2 cents on why there's a general
decline in participation in contest soaring is that there is a general
lack of a structure and interest of "passing XC knowledge" along in the
soaring community to new guys. Folks just want to go to the gliderport
on Saturday, assemble and fly, and I can't necessarily blame them.

Frank Paynter detailed many of these problems very precisely in the
latest issue of Soaring Magazine in the Condor column. Go read it...I've
encountered most of the problems he highlights and in fact have
communicated with him about my experiences and thoughts.

I started a thread about obtaining XC instruction a while back on this
forum in search of info. Sure, it's out there commercially if I want to
drop 3 grand (plus airfare and expenses) for a week's instruction....or
if I want to trailer my rig 1/2 way across country I might be able to
attend some "XC camps"...but why shouldn't we be able to obtain some of
this knowledge "locally" (or regionally) or perhaps by doing some online
training sponsored by the SSA? I don't want to "learn under fire" by
participating in a actual contest without picking up basic skills to
keep me out of trouble first.

You want more contest participation? Get more guys comfortable with
leaving the local area and going XC and I'll bet contest participation
will increase as well.

I'm not anywhere near ready to fly a contest yet...but I want to be!
But, from my perspective, it appears the barriers to "getting there" on
developing good XC skills currently require a level of commitment (in
time and money) that many weekend flyers look at...and walk away from.

Frank's article confirms this and offers some thoughts on fixing it
(Condor)...but that won't solve all the problems. Maybe every Region
should sponsor a Thermal/XC course for newbies (something like the folks
up at Air Sailing put on) before each contest season????? Sounds like a
good idea to me..


RS





There are plenty of very good cross-country courses that one may take,
given the inclination, time and money. However, empirical evidence
suggests that the difficulty of transition of glider pilots to
cross-country is a significant issue to our sport and most probably
negatively influences its development.

From a global perspective, it becomes apparent that every country has
its own training syllabus and path to pilot certification. This is even
true in Europe, where Gliding remains (for the moment) the only
non-standardized pilot certificate across EASA. Some countries have very
extensive and methodical training programs, while others with less
resources in their gliding communities have simpler courses.

What is common across every single country --to my knowledge at least--
is that pilot training stops with the achievement of a pilot
certificate, which while giving cursory attention to things like
thermaling and weather, does not thoroughly address the skills required
for cross-country.

From there, the path to cross country differs. In most cases, while
there may be recommendations at the national level, procedures and
programs rest with the club, i.e. cross-country endorsement to use the
club single seater, or pilot briefing flight to fly your sailplane from
the site. Some countries offer Bronze Badge preparatory programs
followed by a Silver Badge target for the pilot. However, these an not
fully fledged instruction programs but most often just hoops to jump
through in order to be able to take your glider cross-county.

There are basically two paths available in most cases: join a
cross-country course somewhere, or progress on your own. Some people are
lucky enough to be in a club or soaring community which offers
cross-country training, but in my understanding this is a minority.

While some people seek gliding as a primary way to learn to fly and then
progress to other forms of aviation (and this is something to be
encouraged as it is a very rewarding path), I would suggest that the
great majority of people who will stick with gliding for the long term
are those who will later pursue cross-county. Given this, I find little
excuse for not having cross-country training (with full and practical
instruction in cross-country flights) as part of the official training
syllabus for the acquisition of a gliding pilot certificate.

Surely, from a regulatory perspective, instruction in the safe and
effective conduct of the aircraft is the threshold for the acquisition
of a license, but beyond that, the national gliding committees should be
pushing for a training syllabus on cross-country to be incorporated in
the training program. Why stop at the minimum requirement imposed by the
regulator --which is what should be tested for in the CAA examination--
and not also include instruction in the necessary skill for advancement
in the sport which will also enhance the safe operation of the pilot in
the future?


Alexander Georgas

On Sep 7, 6:56*am, "Dan Marotta" wrote:
What is stopping you from following one of the more experienced pilots as he
goes out on a task? *What stops you from asking questions?

When I was learning to "cut the cord", that's what I did. *Some of the
pilots were real snobs and had no time to talk with inexperienced guys,
others were open, friendly, and helpful. *Find them. *Don't let the lack of
"cross country instruction" keep you from enjoying the benefits!

"RAS56" wrote in message

...









As a relative newcomer to the sport, my 2 cents on why there's a general
decline in participation in contest soaring is that there is a general
lack of a structure and interest of "passing XC knowledge" along in the
soaring community to new guys. Folks just want to go to the gliderport
on Saturday, assemble and fly, and I can't necessarily blame them.

Frank Paynter detailed many of these problems very precisely in the
latest issue of Soaring Magazine in the Condor column. Go read it...I've
encountered most of the problems he highlights and in fact have
communicated with him about my experiences and thoughts.

I started a thread about obtaining XC instruction a while back on this
forum in search of info. Sure, it's out there commercially if I want to
drop 3 grand (plus airfare and expenses) for a week's instruction....or
if I want to trailer my rig 1/2 way across country I might be able to
attend some "XC camps"...but why shouldn't we be able to obtain some of
this knowledge "locally" (or regionally) or perhaps by doing some online
training sponsored by the SSA? I don't want to "learn under fire" by
participating in a actual contest without picking up basic skills to
keep me out of trouble first.

You want more contest participation? Get more guys comfortable with
leaving the local area and going XC and I'll bet contest participation
will increase as well.

I'm not anywhere near ready to fly a contest yet...but I want to be!
But, from my perspective, it appears the barriers to "getting there" on
developing good XC skills currently require a level of commitment (in
time and money) that many weekend flyers look at...and walk away from.

Frank's article confirms this and offers some thoughts on fixing it
(Condor)...but that won't solve all the problems. Maybe every Region
should sponsor a Thermal/XC course for newbies (something like the folks
up at Air Sailing put on) before each contest season????? Sounds like a
good idea to me..

RS

--
RAS56

"What is stopping you from following one of the more experienced
pilots as he
goes out on a task? What stops you from asking questions?"

Dan I'm a bit of an experienced xc pilot. If you haven't noticed most
highly experienced xc pilots (don't include me on this or maybe you
either) don't have the time or want to extend the time to mentor low
time pilots (some do & will). Following? How does a new guy follow an
experienced pilot that's hot to go? Most have the mentality of "hey
learn it yourself, I had to and there's books on this subject". Yes
the other option is spend a few hundred or a couple thousand $'s on
training. Also look at a guy like Tony Smolder (excellent pilot), when
he lived in Arizona he couldn't fly under 500k per flight, he's back
east now and he has a hard time getting a flight over 300k.back east.

Timing and location. Keep launching and looking for thermals, ask
questions if you can't get an answer ask someone else.
RS it will come with time and experience keep at it fly often