SPOT messenger

Darryl Ramm wrote:

And to Martin's earlier comment, OK etc. does not always take 20
minutes to send, it might take up to that (or may never successfully
send) but you can see that messages often go out quicker than this.
I'm missing the point of the argument used, I use tracking becasue it
is convenient and I don't want to press buttons, not because I think a
track position report is more likely to get out than an OK report.

I also use tracking for these reasons. I do think an OK messages will
get out more reliably a tracking message, because OK messages have a 20
minute window to get out, versus the 10 minute window of the tracking
messages. All my OK messages have been sent, but an ocasional tracking
message isn't, sometimes two in a row.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

* Updated! "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* New Jan '08 - sections on Mode S, TPAS, ADS-B, Flarm, more

* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

On May 15, 8:19 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On May 14, 11:34 pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On May 14, 4:37 pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
The SPOT does not "wait for an opening" to talk to Globalstar, it has
no idea where the Globalstar satelites are, it just sends blind, then
retransmits the same message later. It's pure simplex, there is no
"carrier detect", no handshake, no ACK. Nothing. The Globalstar
satellites are just dumb one-way bent pipe repeaters. Sometime being
simple is a beautiful thing.

I always assumed the 20 minute thing was put into the SPOT system
because sat time is expensive.

I've got to be believe the 20 mins is a wild design guess on their
part. The practical transmit reliability with SPOT across their
intended users has got to be dominated by environmental factors,
device antenna direction, obstructions (trees, mountains, etc. for
hikers, car roofs) and finally satellite position. Modeling the number
and durations between retransmit attempts to deal with these factors
would be very difficult. You'd start with a simplified model that just
factored satellite coverage and message collision probabilities and
guess from there. You want to cap retransmits to reduce battery
consumption and just excess further collisions. For 911 it keeps
retransmitting much longer AFAIK. And the only "cost" for the sat time
is the risk of further message collisions.

Darryl

On May 15, 9:05*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
I did and I love it! I'm just waiting for them to create a public side
to findmespot.com so I can share my tracks. Right now you have to give
out the admin password to your account (which includes your credit
card on file, etc) for people to see your tracks.

They've done that already, and it works well. Take another look at the
site to see how you can create public pages.

Thanks to all for posting. I'm gathering responses to several posts
here. First, on the sharing option, they say it's a beta and in my
experience (and that of three people who tried it on various
computers) it does not work. While it may work some of the time,
that's not good enough for the S&R application, so I've had to share
my account password with my backup people.

Second on Eric's post re zipper on top vs. the bottom (#13 in this
thread), I emailed Allen Silver and, not surprisingly, there is a
logic to the zipper location. Here's his response:

"There actually is a reason why I mounted it on the bottom. One is to
protect it from getting snagged and accidentally opened and the other
is about gravity. If you left the snap that secures the zipper to the
pack undone and you had to bailout the zipper could unzip during the g
forces of opening. Not likely to occur, but you know about Murphy's
Law."

Thanks for the posts on vertical vs. horizontal. I'll have to try it
in the SMAK PAK and see what happens.

Martin
WT

On May 24, 8:43*am, wrote:
On May 15, 9:05*am, Eric Greenwell wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:
I did and I love it! I'm just waiting for them to create a public side
to findmespot.com so I can share my tracks. Right now you have to give
out the admin password to your account (which includes your credit
card on file, etc) for people to see your tracks.

They've done that already, and it works well. Take another look at the
site to see how you can create public pages.

Thanks to all for posting. I'm gathering responses to several posts
here. First, on the sharing option, they say it's a beta and in my
experience (and that of three people who tried it on various
computers) it does not work. While it may work some of the time,
that's not good enough for the S&R application, so I've had to share
my account password with my backup people.

Second on Eric's post re zipper on top vs. the bottom (#13 in this
thread), I emailed Allen Silver and, not surprisingly, there is a
logic to the zipper location. Here's his response:

"There actually is a reason why I mounted it on the bottom. One is to
protect it from getting snagged and accidentally opened and the other
is about gravity. If you left the snap that secures the zipper to the
pack undone and you had to bailout the zipper could unzip during the g
forces of opening. Not likely to occur, but you know about Murphy's
Law."

Thanks for the posts on vertical vs. horizontal. I'll have to try it
in the SMAK PAK and see what happens.

Martin
WT

I don't have any problems with the share page, it is working the same
as the account page, and much more intuitive. the only issue with it
is that currently it only displays the last 24 hours, so if you need
to track someone longer you need to logon to their account.

Ramy

Hi,

I've been selling a lot of SPOT units and I'm very curious about the SMAK
pak from Allen Silver. Can you please send me contact information. Does he
have a web site?

Thank you,

Paul Remde

wrote in message
...
On May 15, 9:05 am, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
I did and I love it! I'm just waiting for them to create a public side
to findmespot.com so I can share my tracks. Right now you have to give
out the admin password to your account (which includes your credit
card on file, etc) for people to see your tracks.

They've done that already, and it works well. Take another look at the
site to see how you can create public pages.

Thanks to all for posting. I'm gathering responses to several posts
here. First, on the sharing option, they say it's a beta and in my
experience (and that of three people who tried it on various
computers) it does not work. While it may work some of the time,
that's not good enough for the S&R application, so I've had to share
my account password with my backup people.

Second on Eric's post re zipper on top vs. the bottom (#13 in this
thread), I emailed Allen Silver and, not surprisingly, there is a
logic to the zipper location. Here's his response:

"There actually is a reason why I mounted it on the bottom. One is to
protect it from getting snagged and accidentally opened and the other
is about gravity. If you left the snap that secures the zipper to the
pack undone and you had to bailout the zipper could unzip during the g
forces of opening. Not likely to occur, but you know about Murphy's
Law."

Thanks for the posts on vertical vs. horizontal. I'll have to try it
in the SMAK PAK and see what happens.

Martin
WT

On May 31, 9:28 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I've been selling a lot of SPOT units and I'm very curious about the SMAK
pak from Allen Silver. Can you please send me contact information. Does he
have a web site?

Thank you,

Paul Remde

http://www.silverparachutes.com/

Hi,

Thanks for the link to the SMAK Pak. It looks very nice.

If pilots want a simpler option for holding the SPOT only. I just placed an
order to Para-Phernalia (makers of Softie parachutes) for a batch of their
"Pocket for PLB" (personal locator beacon) pouches - made to match the
dimensions of the spot. I will stock them in the orange color (to match the
SPOT) but I can also get them in colors to match your parachute. They sell
for $50.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"sisu1a" wrote in message
...
On May 31, 9:28 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I've been selling a lot of SPOT units and I'm very curious about the SMAK
pak from Allen Silver. Can you please send me contact information. Does
he
have a web site?

Thank you,

Paul Remde

http://www.silverparachutes.com/

I had a 7 hours flight last Saturday in Nevada, during which my spot
was tracking normally, with the occasional missing transmissions here
and there. However there was a period of one hour with no track
reports. The only thing I can tell which was different from tthe rest
of the flight is that I was flying under solid overcast and OD during
this period, once I got back to the sun the tracking resumed.
Any thoughts if this was just coincidence or the clouds blocked the
transmissions?
In any case, I'f affraid that currently it is not safe to assume that
a glider will be within 10 minutes distance of the last track, can be
much longer.

Ramy

On Jun 1, 5:55*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

Thanks for the link to the SMAK Pak. *It looks very nice.

If pilots want a simpler option for holding theSPOTonly. *I just placed an
order to Para-Phernalia (makers of Softie parachutes) for a batch of their
"Pocket for PLB" (personal locator beacon) pouches - made to match the
dimensions of thespot. *I will stock them in the orange color (to match theSPOT) but I can also get them in colors to match your parachute. *They sell
for $50.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"sisu1a" wrote in message

...



On May 31, 9:28 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I've been selling a lot ofSPOTunits and I'm very curious about the SMAK
pak from Allen Silver. Can you please send me contact information. *Does
he
have a web site?

Thank you,

Paul Remde

http://www.silverparachutes.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hi Paul
Spot does not attach to glider straps because the Spot clip is too
small and I thank you Paul for making available the pouch. I have had
a Spot for about a month now and have used it on most flights. It
mostly works well but as with most items not designed for aviation it
is not perfect for that application. Soaring from Parowan to Minden
today the girls were monitoring my flight using the tracking mode and
well into the flight the received tracks, instead of being close to
real time, stopped coming for an hour and the girls started to worry.
About 1 hour later the system caught up and the missing tracks
appeared. Regardless the Spot is a very useful device and I will not
fly without it. I am sure the bugs will be worked out.
Dave

On Jun 16, 3:36*pm, Ramy wrote:
I had a 7 hours flight last Saturday in Nevada, during which my spot
was tracking normally, with the occasional missing transmissions here
and there. However there was a period of one hour with no track
reports. The only thing I can tell which was different from tthe rest
of the flight is that I was flying under solid overcast and OD during
this period, once I got back to the sun the tracking resumed.
Any thoughts if this was just coincidence or the clouds blocked the
transmissions?
In any case, I'f affraid that currently it is not safe to assume that
a glider will be within 10 minutes distance of the last track, can be
much longer.

Ramy

On Jun 1, 5:55*am, "Paul Remde" wrote:

Hi,

Thanks for the link to the SMAK Pak. *It looks very nice.

If pilots want a simpler option for holding theSPOTonly. *I just placed an
order to Para-Phernalia (makers of Softie parachutes) for a batch of their
"Pocket for PLB" (personal locator beacon) pouches - made to match the
dimensions of thespot. *I will stock them in the orange color (to match theSPOT) but I can also get them in colors to match your parachute. *They sell
for $50.

Good Soaring,

Paul Remde
Cumulus Soaring, Inc.http://www.cumulus-soaring.com

"sisu1a" wrote in message

...

On May 31, 9:28 pm, "Paul Remde" wrote:
Hi,

I've been selling a lot ofSPOTunits and I'm very curious about the SMAK
pak from Allen Silver. Can you please send me contact information. *Does
he
have a web site?

Thank you,

Paul Remde

http://www.silverparachutes.com/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ramy

Spot uses the Globalstar L-Band simplex links. L-band is relatively
immune to rain attenuation, rain/water droplets suspended in storm
clouds are likely the worse case scenario. A guess for bad rain
attenuation might be something like only a dB or so at L-band. The GPS
signals are in the same frequency bands and will have similar
attenuation. So my first guess is clouds, even storm clouds are not
likely to be the issue.

So the next question is did anybody else flying in the genral area
have the same problem? I was flying in the Mendocinos at the same time
and had no SPOT problems but that is probably far enough away to not
count, except to exclude more systemic problems. The next question is
did the unit have a full view of the sky or are you still mounting it
on your parachute harness? I'm not sure if this is on your shoulder -
in which case your head (hopefully opaque at L-band :-) ), RF opaque
parts of the fuselage/canopy frame area, etc. will be obscuring lots
of the sky, or vertical on your harness in which case far more of the
sky will likely be obscured. Both of these will affect coverage as
Global star satellites fly into and out of the now fairly restricted
sky view or as you turn the direction of the obscured antenna to bring
Globalstar or GPS satellites into view.

I think SPOT is fantastic, fly with one all the time in SPOTcast mode,
but I'm not giving up on my 406MHz PLB on my parachute harness.

Darryl