KLN94 GPS and flying "overlay" GPS approaches

Peter wrote:

Sam Spade wrote


Forcing the scaling to 0.3 does not result in approach mode. Approach
mode includes approach RAIM and some additional accuracy that is not
apparent to the pilot.


Can you indicate how this additional accuracy is implemented?

No, I have been told this by one of Garmin's 400/500 avionics engineers.

I am not an avionics engineer. Those folks live in a different world. ;-)

So, if you fly an approach with 0.3 forced, and the approach
light/annunicator is not active, you are flying the approach effectively
in terminal mode.


Yes, I see that.

On 06/16/06 03:40, Peter wrote:
Mark Hansen wrote:

The Garmin series of GPS will move into SUSP mode when you turn
outbound for the procedure turn, or when you reach the MAP. Basically,
it stops the GPS from auto-sequencing to the next waypoint.

The KLN94 (and others?) goes into OBS mode when you get to the
MAP (which is essentially the same thing) but requires the pilot
to set OBS mode manually when approaching the procedure turn
fix (note that it reminds the pilot to do this when approaching
an IAF that is in the same location as a FAF, etc.)

Thank you very much for this.

I'd need to spend some serious time to get my head around these
possibilities. Do you Americans go on a GPS training course? I went on
a Honeywell one in 2002 but they never covered these "real life"
procedures. They just went through what the thing does.

I read the Pilot's Guide, but that's a pretty dry read without any
real practical experience. However, as I mentioned earlier, I just
completed an Instrument Proficiency Check which included heavy use
of the KLN-94. This helped all the information 'sink in'.


At the MAP (having flown a GPS approach) if going missed then I would
climb (of course) and fly the aircraft manually, or perhaps with the
AP on HDG mode and with ALT capture set to the missed approach target
altitude.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

Peter wrote:

I'd need to spend some serious time to get my head around these
possibilities. Do you Americans go on a GPS training course? I went on
a Honeywell one in 2002 but they never covered these "real life"
procedures. They just went through what the thing does.

Education is seriously lacking. There are a lot of pilots flying behind these
boxes who can't get beyond GO-TO. Good luck finding an instructor who really
knows. Of course the knowledge is to a great extent model specific. Knowing how
to use a Garmin tells you little about how to use a B-K. It's a mess. There are
a few instructors who specialize in this kind of instruction, but you have to
look for them.

Standby for a series of instructors to post "hire me, I know how to do it".

Dave

Dave Butler wrote:

Standby for a series of instructors to post "hire me, I know how to do it".

And, take all of that with a big salt shaker.

A friend of mine did a check-out last year in a new G-1000 Cessna 182.
The CFI-I was "factory trained," so to speak.

He was pretty good, except when he chewed out my friend for not
remaining within the Garmin magenta oval for a holding pattern.

Simply put, that is a crock.

On 06/16/06 08:34, Dave Butler wrote:
Peter wrote:

I'd need to spend some serious time to get my head around these
possibilities. Do you Americans go on a GPS training course? I went on
a Honeywell one in 2002 but they never covered these "real life"
procedures. They just went through what the thing does.

Education is seriously lacking. There are a lot of pilots flying behind these
boxes who can't get beyond GO-TO. Good luck finding an instructor who really
knows. Of course the knowledge is to a great extent model specific. Knowing how
to use a Garmin tells you little about how to use a B-K. It's a mess. There are
a few instructors who specialize in this kind of instruction, but you have to
look for them.

Standby for a series of instructors to post "hire me, I know how to do it".

Dave

I've been "trained" on both the Garmin GNS-430 and KLN-94. It definitely
helps to see more than one box, as you begin to see the items that are
GPS related, rather than just Garmin/King related.

I've had instructors that seemed to really understand the GPS, and some
that knew little more than loading and executing approaches and using
Direct-To. Mostly, though, they seemed to have a real good understanding
of how to use the thing. Perhaps I've been lucky.

I expect having experience with more than one box will make it easier to
transition to any new box as well, but only time will tell.


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter wrote:

Sam Spade wrote

And, suspend may occur more than once with a complex
missed approach procedure.

What is "suspend"?

A flight plan consists of a sequence of waypoints. So, for example, let's
say I've got POU CMK HPN programmed in. As I depart POU, it makes CMK the
active waypoint and starts navigating to there. Once I reach CMK, it will
automatically sequence over to HPN being the active waypoint.

Now, before I get to CMK, the controller says, "hold at CMK, blah, blah,
blah". If I leave things as normal, once I reach CMK the first time,
it'll
sequence over to HPN, which is a bad thing. I want it to stay on CMK as I
keep going round and round until the guy says, "proceed on course" and
*then* I want it to sequence over to HPN. So, what I do is put the GPS
into suspend mode (well, in reality, it goes into suspend mode
automatically when I program in the hold). When I'm done holding, I take
it out of suspend mode, and it sequences over to the next waypoint.

How do you switch it into SUSPEND mode ?

Regards

Kyprianos Biris wrote:

How do you switch it into SUSPEND mode ?

Regards


I can only speak to the Garmin 400/500 series. SUSPEND is built into
the nav database by Garmin for an approach. At a minimum, there is
SUSPEND for the missed approach point. It is cleared by hitting the OBS
button.

Other times SUSPEND occurs:

1. At a course reversal hold, SUSPEND lasts for one circuit in the hold.

2. At a published missed approach hold, SUSPEND lasts indefinately until
cancelled.

3. SUSPEND can occur more than once for a missed approach, such as where
an altitude has to be achieved before a turn can be made (example KJAC
ILS 19)

"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:Tpwmg.34487$AB3.587@fed1read02...
Kyprianos Biris wrote:

How do you switch it into SUSPEND mode ?

Regards


I can only speak to the Garmin 400/500 series. SUSPEND is built into
the nav database by Garmin for an approach. At a minimum, there is
SUSPEND for the missed approach point. It is cleared by hitting the OBS
button.

Other times SUSPEND occurs:

1. At a course reversal hold, SUSPEND lasts for one circuit in the hold.

2. At a published missed approach hold, SUSPEND lasts indefinately until
cancelled.

3. SUSPEND can occur more than once for a missed approach, such as where
an altitude has to be achieved before a turn can be made (example KJAC
ILS 19)

Kyprianos asked how to switch *into* "suspend" mode, not *out* of it.
I don't have access to a KLN94, so I can't answer his question, either.
But on my CNX80, the "SUSP" button toggles into and out of the "Suspend" mode.

Furthermore, the CNX80/GNS480 does not automatically "suspend" at the MAP.
If the aircraft doesn't land, the missed approach continues to sequence.

On 06/22/06 08:02, John R. Copeland wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:Tpwmg.34487$AB3.587@fed1read02...
Kyprianos Biris wrote:

How do you switch it into SUSPEND mode ?

Regards


I can only speak to the Garmin 400/500 series. SUSPEND is built into
the nav database by Garmin for an approach. At a minimum, there is
SUSPEND for the missed approach point. It is cleared by hitting the OBS
button.

Other times SUSPEND occurs:

1. At a course reversal hold, SUSPEND lasts for one circuit in the hold.

2. At a published missed approach hold, SUSPEND lasts indefinately until
cancelled.

3. SUSPEND can occur more than once for a missed approach, such as where
an altitude has to be achieved before a turn can be made (example KJAC
ILS 19)

Kyprianos asked how to switch *into* "suspend" mode, not *out* of it.
I don't have access to a KLN94, so I can't answer his question, either.
But on my CNX80, the "SUSP" button toggles into and out of the "Suspend" mode.

Furthermore, the CNX80/GNS480 does not automatically "suspend" at the MAP.
If the aircraft doesn't land, the missed approach continues to sequence.


The KLN94 doesn't have a SUSP mode. To prevent it from sequencing beyond
the procedure turn holding fix, you must manually switch it from LEG mode
to OBS mode, using the OBS button. When approaching the fix, the unit is
nice enough to remind you to do this ;-)


--
Mark Hansen, PP-ASEL, Instrument Airplane
Cal Aggie Flying Farmers
Sacramento, CA

John R. Copeland wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message news:Tpwmg.34487$AB3.587@fed1read02...

Kyprianos Biris wrote:


How do you switch it into SUSPEND mode ?

Regards



I can only speak to the Garmin 400/500 series. SUSPEND is built into
the nav database by Garmin for an approach. At a minimum, there is
SUSPEND for the missed approach point. It is cleared by hitting the OBS
button.

Other times SUSPEND occurs:

1. At a course reversal hold, SUSPEND lasts for one circuit in the hold.

2. At a published missed approach hold, SUSPEND lasts indefinately until
cancelled.

3. SUSPEND can occur more than once for a missed approach, such as where
an altitude has to be achieved before a turn can be made (example KJAC
ILS 19)


Kyprianos asked how to switch *into* "suspend" mode, not *out* of it.
I don't have access to a KLN94, so I can't answer his question, either.
But on my CNX80, the "SUSP" button toggles into and out of the "Suspend" mode.

The pilot cannot switch a Garmin 400/500 series into suspend. He can
only invoke OBS mode, which is similar to, but not identical to, suspend.



Furthermore, the CNX80/GNS480 does not automatically "suspend" at the MAP.
If the aircraft doesn't land, the missed approach continues to sequence.


That sounds dicey if you are using autopilot in NAV mode, and there is a
turn required before you might be ready.