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old days



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 15th 06, 01:27 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
JohnO
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Posts: 120
Default Tracking ---------- old days


boB wrote:
Stuart & Kathryn Fields wrote:
boB. I believe that the 1/rev vertical is due to tracking, and on my ship,
I either stick track for a ground check or use tip lites. Note us
experimental guys have a blade tip mounted LED two different colors, and we
can use these tip lites in forward flite. One person tracking is possible.




I had forgotten tip lights. On the OH-6 we had cat-eyes but all white
reflectors with a different slash in each reflector (- | and /). I
tried those (2 of them) on an OH58 but didn't have a bright enough
light. I had to do the tracking after dusk.



I also check the vertical vibration by using an accelerometer mounted down
by the passengers pedals.



Even when I do vertical 2/rev, measuring in the same spot, I
don't get any significant readings. However measuring the horizontal 2/rev
just below the swash plate, I can get some significant readings when my fuel
level gets below 1/2 tank and I can feel it in the seat and controls. It
seems that all of the Baby Belles exhibit this phenomena to some extent.
Measurements on the Rotorway Exec showed similar readings but for some
reason their vibrations don't enter the cockpit.
I'm curious as to the sources of 2/rev vibrations. The two mentioned with
Don W I know about and not a lot can be done to either of these two sources,
but are there more sources?


My experience is limited at best with only the aircraft I flew in the
Army. But I'm hoping someday to be back in the air and I'm interested in
what comes from this discussion.

One of the aircraft I had high on my list was the Mini 500. Thanks to
this newsgroup I've lined through that one.


Write 'helicycle' instead.

  #12  
Old December 15th 06, 04:26 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
boB[_2_]
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Posts: 22
Default Different small helicopters

JohnO wrote:

One of the aircraft I had high on my list was the Mini 500. Thanks to
this newsgroup I've lined through that one.


Write 'helicycle' instead.


There are several videos of the helicycle flying and it looks very good.
Does anyone have any experience with the ultra sport helicopters?

http://www.ultrasport.rotor.com/ultrasport496.htm

or the Mosquito single place ultralight helicopter and the AirScooter?

--

boB
copter.six
  #13  
Old December 15th 06, 05:32 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
JohnO
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Posts: 120
Default Different small helicopters


boB wrote:
JohnO wrote:

One of the aircraft I had high on my list was the Mini 500. Thanks to
this newsgroup I've lined through that one.


Write 'helicycle' instead.


There are several videos of the helicycle flying and it looks very good.
Does anyone have any experience with the ultra sport helicopters?

http://www.ultrasport.rotor.com/ultrasport496.htm


The floats option is cool. However the 2 stroke vs gas turbine
comparison?

or the Mosquito single place ultralight helicopter and the AirScooter?

--

boB
copter.six


  #14  
Old December 15th 06, 02:14 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
John Doe[_3_]
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Posts: 3
Default old days

"boB" wrote in message
...

I had the fortune of flying helicopters during Vietnam. Back in the days
where pilots passed along their experiences and how to survive getting the
helicopter shot out from under them. I did not fly in Vietnam. My orders
were to report in Feb 1973. In January they ended the war (so to speak)
and my orders were canceled.

But before I knew my orders were going to be canceled I flew with all Vets
and soaked up everything they would teach me. One maneuver many of them
had experience with was an engine failure at 50 ft AGL at a hover and
moving forward. Both situations required the same response in the UH-1.
The collective was slammed down and without a pause, was raised quickly to
cushion the landing. It was almost a continuous movement, down and then
back up. These were pilots teaching me, not IPs. By the time I started
instructing in 1978 the world of Army Aviation had changed. Even as an IP
I could not teach, or even demonstrate, some of the maneuvers that combat
veterans had learned the hard way.

Some of the other maneuvers I was taught turned out to be a bit on the
extreme side of the coin. An OH58 hovering at 500 feet AGL, engine
failure, lower the collective and apply aft cyclic until backing up a few
knots, then lower the nose to get at least 40 knots and apply collective
to cushion landing directly under the point of the engine failure. As I
remember the minimum rate of descent in an OH58 is 43 knots. I remember at
that airspeed there was no deceleration, only a quick and continuous
application of collective to keep the skids from wrapping around the
fuselage.

I was not required to remember how to react to those situations in Desert
Storm. I flew OH58D's and as far as I could tell I was never seen or shot
at.

--

boB
copter.six



Thanks a lot boB... It means a world of difference having someone with real
life (or even better - combat) experience giving their opinion... Sadly I
have never done anything but power recovery autos and I'm currently passing
through 550 hours (Bell206B) - so any answer I give to my students is purely
theoretical. And sometimes it's hard to be convincing Not to mention the
discussions that go on once the subject is open between my coworkers
If you or anyone else has any info on theese "nonstandard" procedures I'd be
happy to hear them out...


  #15  
Old December 15th 06, 09:56 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
boB[_2_]
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Posts: 22
Default old days

John Doe wrote:



Thanks a lot boB... It means a world of difference having someone with real
life (or even better - combat) experience giving their opinion... Sadly I
have never done anything but power recovery autos and I'm currently passing
through 550 hours (Bell206B) - so any answer I give to my students is purely
theoretical. And sometimes it's hard to be convincing Not to mention the
discussions that go on once the subject is open between my coworkers
If you or anyone else has any info on theese "nonstandard" procedures I'd be
happy to hear them out...



I agree, power recovery autos suck but if that's all that's allowed you
can still try to give the student some different situations so when the
engine actually quits they have a lot of practice completing the
immediate procedures and once in a controlled descent they will walk
away from the resulting landing.

Please take what I say with a grain of salt. I can only talk about what
my experiences were and I don't want to convey that what I did was the
cut and dried solution. I have no idea what an R22 would do with an
engine failure at 50 feet. In 25 years the only actual engine failure I
had was in an OH-13 (Bell 46). Luckily I was a student in flight school
flying instrument procedures. That was back in the days of the scruffy
old IP's. As I was flying along the nose of the aircraft kind of jerked
a little bit left. The IP told me to be easier on the pedals. The
aircraft jerked again, the IP hit my leg with his hat and just as he was
yelling, the aircraft got strangely quiet. My reaction was to go
through the emergency procedure for engine failure IMC. I barely got the
collective down before the IP, all assholes and elbows, grabbed the
controls and we set down nicely in a peanut field there in Alabama. So
my only engine failure in 25 years consisted of me watching my IP
complete a "full stop" autorotation. But I never forgot what it sounded
like when the engine decided to quit.




--

boB
copter.six
  #16  
Old December 15th 06, 09:59 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
boB[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Different small helicopters

The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:

While I've never experienced a 2-stroke engine failure in 20+ years of
dirt-bike riding, a 2-stroke in a helicopter makes me nervous...

It's a cool looking ship, but it looks as if there's been no updates
to the site since 2004. And how much does the thing cost??



I don't know. It depresses me to actually look for a price.

I posted here once about the RAF2000 Gyro because what I'd like is a 2
passenger cross country vehicle and I wasn't really thinking
"helicopter" Someone here cautioned me away from that one too.

--

boB
copter.six
  #17  
Old December 16th 06, 02:46 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Steve R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default old days


"boB" wrote in message
...

Please take what I say with a grain of salt. I can only talk about what my
experiences were and I don't want to convey that what I did was the cut
and dried solution. I have no idea what an R22 would do with an engine
failure at 50 feet. In 25 years the only actual engine failure I had was
in an OH-13 (Bell 46). Luckily I was a student in flight school flying
instrument procedures. That was back in the days of the scruffy old IP's.
As I was flying along the nose of the aircraft kind of jerked a little bit
left. The IP told me to be easier on the pedals. The aircraft jerked
again, the IP hit my leg with his hat and just as he was yelling, the
aircraft got strangely quiet. My reaction was to go through the emergency
procedure for engine failure IMC. I barely got the collective down before
the IP, all assholes and elbows, grabbed the controls and we set down
nicely in a peanut field there in Alabama. So my only engine failure in
25 years consisted of me watching my IP complete a "full stop"
autorotation. But I never forgot what it sounded like when the engine
decided to quit.


boB
copter.six


Cool story boB. Definitely a time when silence is "not" golden! I'd love
to see the look on the IP's face! ;-)

Steve R.


  #18  
Old December 16th 06, 02:52 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Steve R
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 34
Default Different small helicopters

"boB" wrote in message
...
The OTHER Kevin in San Diego wrote:

While I've never experienced a 2-stroke engine failure in 20+ years of
dirt-bike riding, a 2-stroke in a helicopter makes me nervous...

It's a cool looking ship, but it looks as if there's been no updates
to the site since 2004. And how much does the thing cost??



I don't know. It depresses me to actually look for a price.

I posted here once about the RAF2000 Gyro because what I'd like is a 2
passenger cross country vehicle and I wasn't really thinking "helicopter"
Someone here cautioned me away from that one too.

--

boB
copter.six


There are variations on the RAF2000 that correct the acknowledged
deficiencies of the orginal aircraft.

Check out http://www.americanautogyro.com/.

FWIW! :-)

Fly Safe,
Steve R.


  #19  
Old December 16th 06, 07:08 AM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
Don W
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Posts: 52
Default old days


boB wrote:
As I was flying along the nose of the aircraft

kind of jerked
a little bit left. The IP told me to be easier on the pedals. The
aircraft jerked again, the IP hit my leg with his hat and just as he was
yelling, the aircraft got strangely quiet.


I've never experienced a real power failure in a
helicopter, but I've heard that your first clue
even before it gets quiet is you are suddenly
flying "sideways"....

Don W.

  #20  
Old December 16th 06, 05:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.rotorcraft
John Doe[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default old days


"Don W" wrote in message
t...

boB wrote:
As I was flying along the nose of the aircraft

kind of jerked
a little bit left. The IP told me to be easier on the pedals. The
aircraft jerked again, the IP hit my leg with his hat and just as he was
yelling, the aircraft got strangely quiet.


I've never experienced a real power failure in a helicopter, but I've
heard that your first clue even before it gets quiet is you are suddenly
flying "sideways"....

Don W.


Well I thing that is a good record - once in 25 years The only real scare
I got was during a test flight... we were up somewhere around 7000 feet and
started entering the autorotation.. when the test pilot rolled the power
down to flight idle the engine out light and alarm went off.. for no reason
whatsoever..
I remember just staring at the N1 gauhe and thinking why isn't it it at 0%..
stupid of me I didn't even reach for the collective...


 




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