TSA training requirements for CFIs

I've looked at government documents about the TSA recurrent
CFI training until my head hurts. Can anyone summarize what
I need as an independent CFI to show that I've followed
whatever rules there are?

I've taken an online quiz where every other answer is to ask
my non-existent supervisor. I printed out a form that said I
finished the TSA course. I read the
"recurrent_flight_school_module.pdf" document, which seems
to say I've done recurrent training by looking up stuff
about my airport. It seems to have a form that I sign
myself certifying that I've trained myself and a logbook
entry that I make to myself to verify what I just certified
to myself. Can that be right?

What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Is there a good link that explains this that I couldn't
find? Help is gratefully appreciated from anyone who has
figured this out.

In article ,
TRA wrote:
I've looked at government documents about the TSA recurrent
CFI training until my head hurts. Can anyone summarize what
I need as an independent CFI to show that I've followed
whatever rules there are?

I've taken an online quiz where every other answer is to ask
my non-existent supervisor. I printed out a form that said I
finished the TSA course. I read the
"recurrent_flight_school_module.pdf" document, which seems
to say I've done recurrent training by looking up stuff
about my airport. It seems to have a form that I sign
myself certifying that I've trained myself and a logbook
entry that I make to myself to verify what I just certified
to myself. Can that be right?

No, of course not. You missed the most important step. Take the
certificate you printed out, put it in a dime-store frame, and hang it
on your wall. Right between your Junior High School diploma and the
calendar you got from the Chinese take-out place. Now you're done.

My next-door neighbors' 20-something nephew from Demascus just came to
live with them for a couple years while he works on a Master's degree
in computer science. I figure I've fulfilled my recurrent training
requirement by having them all over for a barbeque.

TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens) you only need to
keep a copy of their proof of U.S. citizenship (passport) or a log book
endorsement that you validated it.
You are also suppose to know that if anyone asks you for primary,
multi, or instrument training that you need to refer them to a TSA
authorized CFI (or become one yourself). TSA authorized CFIs (like
myself) have a login account with the TSA website and can process
foreign students.

-Robert

BTW: Self endorsement is ok for CFIs to certify either their initial
TSA training (the on-line training) or their recurrent training (which
requires meeting the airport manager, etc).

-Robert

Robert M. Gary wrote:
TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens) you only need to
keep a copy of their proof of U.S. citizenship (passport) or a log book
endorsement that you validated it.
You are also suppose to know that if anyone asks you for primary,
multi, or instrument training that you need to refer them to a TSA
authorized CFI (or become one yourself). TSA authorized CFIs (like
myself) have a login account with the TSA website and can process
foreign students.

-Robert


You don't need to keep a copy of the proof of citizenship. I certainly
would not let just anyone photocopy my passport. The regs only require
the CFI to check the proof of citizenship and endorse the logbook. If
he chooses not to endorse the logbook (I don't know why anyone
wouldn't), then he has to keep a copy of the student's id (but that
does not have to be the same as proof of citizenship; it could be a
drivers license for instance).

Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

You don't need to keep a copy of the proof of citizenship. I certainly
would not let just anyone photocopy my passport. The regs only require
the CFI to check the proof of citizenship and endorse the logbook. If
he chooses not to endorse the logbook (I don't know why anyone
wouldn't), then he has to keep a copy of the student's id (but that
does not have to be the same as proof of citizenship; it could be a
drivers license for instance).

Not according to AOPA
http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule
"Logbook or Record-keeping Requirements. An instructor must keep a copy
of the documents for five years that are used to prove citizenship or
make an endorsement "
a Driver's license does not prove citzenship.

-robert

TRA wrote:
I've looked at government documents about the TSA recurrent
CFI training until my head hurts. Can anyone summarize what
I need as an independent CFI to show that I've followed
whatever rules there are?

I've taken an online quiz where every other answer is to ask
my non-existent supervisor. I printed out a form that said I
finished the TSA course. I read the
"recurrent_flight_school_module.pdf" document, which seems
to say I've done recurrent training by looking up stuff
about my airport. It seems to have a form that I sign
myself certifying that I've trained myself and a logbook
entry that I make to myself to verify what I just certified
to myself. Can that be right?

What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Is there a good link that explains this that I couldn't
find? Help is gratefully appreciated from anyone who has
figured this out.

You beat me to the question. I read the PDF document and had the same
questions. It's painfully obvious that the TSA is pretty clueless when
it comes to independent instructors.

Robert M. Gary wrote:
TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

Assuming you are a U.S. citizen-only CFI (you would have done more with
the TSA if you were authorized to teach non-citizens)
What complete and utter bull****. Does the TSA really think some CFI's
aren't capable of understanding security enough to teach non-citizens?

Robert M. Gary wrote:
BTW: Self endorsement is ok for CFIs to certify either their initial
TSA training (the on-line training) or their recurrent training (which
requires meeting the airport manager, etc).

-Robert

Since I fly out of several differnt airports, does that mean I have to
meet with the every airport manager?

Robert M. Gary wrote:
Andrew Sarangan wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
TRA wrote:
What records about my students do I need to keep for the
TSA? I know what the FAA wants.

You don't need to keep a copy of the proof of citizenship. I certainly
would not let just anyone photocopy my passport. The regs only require
the CFI to check the proof of citizenship and endorse the logbook. If
he chooses not to endorse the logbook (I don't know why anyone
wouldn't), then he has to keep a copy of the student's id (but that
does not have to be the same as proof of citizenship; it could be a
drivers license for instance).

Not according to AOPA
http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule
"Logbook or Record-keeping Requirements. An instructor must keep a copy
of the documents for five years that are used to prove citizenship or
make an endorsement "
a Driver's license does not prove citzenship.

-robert


You left out the remainder of that sentence, which has an "OR"... Here
is the full version:

An instructor must keep a copy of the documents for five years that are
used to prove citizenship or make an endorsement in both the
instructor's logbook, or other record used by the instructor to record
flight student endorsements, and the student's logbook with the
following:....(endorsement example)

Here is where it further says "OR" keep a copy of student ID.
http://www.aopa.org/tsa_rule/checklist.pdf