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Why did this helicopter crash ?



 
 
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  #31  
Old September 10th 04, 12:26 PM
Beav
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"helicopterandy" wrote in message
om...
How long have you been studying helicopters? Five minutes? Saying as
you did above that "lowering the collective wouldn't do anything for
the tail rotor action" speaks volumes of your obvious lack of even the
basics of flying helis.


Oh yeah? Well explain to me how lowering the collective without reducing
power would affect the effect (action) of the tail and improve matters

in
the scenrio. If anything, lowering collective would result in a reduced

load
on the rotor system and an INCREASE in rotor speed and a corresponding
increase in tail rotor speed, which as you'll recal is no longer
controllable, so the net result would be in increase in yaw rate.

Lowering
collective alone would NOT do anything for the uncontrolled yaw which

our
intrepid pilot was encountering.


BEAVIS,


Is there REALLY any need to shout?

YOUR ABOVE POST IS SO WRONG AND MISGUIDED THAT I WON'T BOTHER
RESPONDING TO YOU ANY FURTHER AFTER THIS ONE.


Your choice.

BUT DO YOURSELF ONE
FAVOR BEFORE YOU AGAIN MAKE AN IDIOT OUT OF YOURSELF HE
ASK ANY HELICOPTER PILOT WHO FLYS A SHIP THAT HAS A COUNTER-CLOCKWISE
ROTATION MAIN ROTOR WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU LOWER COLLECTIVE? HINT: YOU
GET A NICE YAW TO THE LEFT SINCE YOU ARE TAKING TORQUE/POWER OUT OF
THE SYSTEM


Yes, pretty obvious.

AND SO YOU NEED TO APPLY RIGHT PEDAL.

Yes.... and your point is?

THAT RIGHT PEDAL
TAKES THE PITCH/THRUST OUT OF THE TAIL ROTOR.



The pilot in the original scenario already had the tail rotor thrust taken
out by the failure. He could've pedaled from now 'til eternity and nothing
would change.

WHEN YOU LOWER COLLECTIVE YOU ARE REDUCING POWER,


You are if you also either roll off throttle or the governor does it for
you. Otherwise.....

MORON.

Oh dear... name calling at this early stage? Makes you look somewhat
immature don't you think?

STOP THINKING
THAT POWER IS ONLY REDUCED BY REDUCING ROTOR SPEED.


I don't remember mentioning rotor speed, in fact I know I didn't, so if
you're going to argue, a least argue with something I said... Power is
reduced by reducing power.

GO STUDY JUST A
BIT.
ONE MORE THING, THE FIRST THING MOST PILOT OPERATING HANDBOOKS STATE
IS THAT IN THE EVENT OF LOSS OF TAIL ROTOR EFFECTIVENESS IN FLIGHT THE
FIRST THING THE PILOT SHOULD DO IS LOWER COLLECTIVE.



Is that "MOST" or "ALL"?

YOU ARE TRYING TO ARGUE ALGEBRA WITH A MATH PRO WHEN YOU OBVIOUSLY
DON'T KNOW WHAT 2 PLUS 2 EQUALS.
GO BACK TO YOUR TOYS.


Oh, now I'm hurt bady.

REGARDS,
MARK
PS
HOW MANY PIC HOURS DO YOU HAVE IN HELICOPERS? I'D GUESS ZERO. NO WAIT,
I'D GUARANTEE THAT YOU HAVE ZERO. He he


Do you think I actually CARE what you "guarantee"?


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk



  #32  
Old September 10th 04, 12:27 PM
Beav
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"Kevin R" wrote in message
...

"Shiver Me Timbers" wrote in message
...
helicopterandy wrote:


GO BACK TO YOUR TOYS.
REGARDS,
MARK


To the Group......... Yunno folks I've been lurking in this group for a

SNIP
Before this goes to far this has been cross posted to both full size and
model helicopters and we are are areguing why we are getting slagged off

"in
our group" but we are posting to "thier group as well" just bear it it

mind
before all the toys are missing from your pram
and as for helicopterandy "PLONK" what a prat???
Keep up the good work Beavis and just kill file him hes not worth the

typing

I just did.

Cheers


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk


  #33  
Old September 10th 04, 02:35 PM
Cam
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I know whats happened here, Randy Pandy has scratched the paint on his R22
and now it won't fly anymore .
Now all experimental and RC heli enthusiasts are complete ****in idiots.

Would a helicopter fly better when the earth was flat?

Cam.


  #34  
Old September 10th 04, 07:13 PM
helicopterandy
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Max of Mad wrote in message ...
helicopterandy wrote:

BEAVIS,
YOUR ABOVE POST IS SO WRONG AND MISGUIDED THAT I WON'T BOTHER
RESPONDING TO YOU ANY FURTHER AFTER THIS ONE. BUT DO YOURSELF ONE


(snip)

You are full of it.

Before you go off the hook, please understand that I mean you no
disrespect, yet.

Don't yell. Typing in all caps is deafening.

Don't say something is wrong and misguided and idiotic without giving an
immediate explanation.

From what I am able to gather from your post, you don't acknowledge the
fact that the rudder pedals are useless. In model helicopter terms, the
left and right rudder are useless. In 'real' helicopter terms, again
the rudder pedals are useless...

What exactly is your problem with his statement? Please state it civilly.


Max of Mad


Max,
The person is trying to tell me (I am very experienced pilot) that
lowering collective will not help with a tail rotor failure. In fact,
he's intimating that it would INCREASE the problem . He's clearly a
moron or just another wanna-be who thinks he knows something (NOT!)
when he doesn't. If you cannot fathom what a loon someone is who
thinks that then maybe you are in his category also.
Regards,
Mark
PS
And as I stated in my previous post, I won't bother responding to him
again. Only an idiot will argue with an ididot.
Oh yeah, why do you all post under different poster names? How
utterly juvenile!!
  #35  
Old September 10th 04, 09:04 PM
Alan
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"The OTHER Kevin in San Diego" skiddz *AT* adelphia *DOT* net wrote in
message ...
On Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:35:07 +1200, "Cam" wrote:

I know whats happened here, Randy Pandy has scratched the paint on his
R22
and now it won't fly anymore .
Now all experimental and RC heli enthusiasts are complete ****in idiots.


I guess I'm a double idiot. I'm a wet-behind-the-ears student helo
pilot *AND* a RC helo "pilot" (translation: I can hover and do some
limited forward flight without crashing about half the time. hehehe)

Would a helicopter fly better when the earth was flat?


You mean it's not???


No. It's just HARD

--
Alan

Remove the dots to reply
http://heliweb.users.btopenworld.com/





  #36  
Old September 11th 04, 12:23 AM
Beav
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"Cam" wrote in message
...
I know whats happened here, Randy Pandy has scratched the paint on his

R22
and now it won't fly anymore .
Now all experimental and RC heli enthusiasts are complete ****in idiots.


Yeah, well he's obviously right :-)

Would a helicopter fly better when the earth was flat?


Only if it was inverted


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk


  #37  
Old September 11th 04, 11:31 PM
Jim
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I believe preliminary findings are leaning toward inadvertent isolation of
the hydraulics, followed by sudden loss of procedural knowledge, shortly
followed by total amnesia of the event... or something close to that. Go
read the NTSB report.

"Ove" wrote in message
news
Maybe a hydraulic failure (lost the pressure) ?

Ove
"Iwan Bogels" wrote in message
...
Hi everybody,

This week I have uploaded a video of a helicopter crash on my website
(www.dappa.nl/crash.htm). Does anyone have a clue about the failure that
caused this crash? It is definately not an engine failure or a tail

rotor
failure, but it still looks like a spectacular decend.

For the sensitive viewers: Nobody got hurt, but the helo is a complete

write
off.

Iwan Bogels
DAPPA







  #38  
Old September 11th 04, 11:48 PM
MikeWhy
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"Jim" wrote in message
k.net...
... sudden loss of procedural knowledge


= panic


 




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