What's the going price for a used SN10b?

On 7/4/2016 11:54 AM, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:

By way of real world example let me illustrate a difference in the SN-10b
to the newer larger format systems. I seem to recall a pilot in the 2014
nationals in Minden suffering a 1,000 point penalty for flying through
restricted airspace. I am sure this pilot was well aware of how to operate
his SN-10b. The new large format displays will warn you in both voice,
alarm and display going red when you get within a pilot defined distance
from such airspace. You would have to be brain dead not to understand and
react to the larger format warning of airspace, or traffic.

Curious the mention of inadvertently busting restricted airspace should arise
on the U.S.' Independence Day. I guess we're not supposed to bust it,
regardless of how independent we are, huh?

OK, so my attempt at humor aside, in all seriousness and judging solely from
contest reports in "Soaring" magazine, the regularity with which that
particular peccadillo has occurred over the years (inadvertently busting
restricted airspace, I mean) has long puzzled me. Whether one had an SN-10 of
any ilk, the latest whiz-bang, full-color-w.-audio-alert "entertainment
system," or simply paper dinosaurs (charts), might there be a RASident with
first-hand familiarity to describe how it came to happen?

I ask as someone who had it beat into his skull upon first flying from the
Boulder (CO) municipal airport that the locale abounded with restricted
airspace - thanks to (usta be) the old Stapleton Airport and now DIA - and
"fer criminy's sake, don't go busting it and screwing things up for the rest
of us glider pilots because you're a scofflaw or idiot!" So I made sure I
didn't, to the point one day of nearly landing out beneath a layer of
Stapleton's (former) TCA when unable to sustain southbound in the hills (west
of Stapleton's controlled wedding cake). Got lucky and (slowly) worked my way
to beneath a higher layer, and eventually back beyond the perimeter. Hadda go
all the way around it to get back home. Point being, I was *very* aware where
it was.

So, sure it wasn't a contest. Hence no pleading "geographical ignorance," or
"middle-of-nowhere absence of geographical helpful-hints," or "mental
overload," or "trying to not lose points," or some such. But I really and
truly do have difficulty imagining a personal scenario where - in a
*Nationals* fer-heaven's-sake - I'd inadvertently bust restricted
airspace...and in a manner that could be proven, no less, whether TCA or PCA
or whatever, regardless of navigation aids. What am I missing?

Bob - as imperfect as the next person - W.

Well just clarify, many have busted airspace or gotten lost, a good friend of mine was hopelessly lost over the Nevada nuclear test range, quite a land out story. Anyone can make mistake and I certainly did not mean to call into question anyones' airmanship, or thought process, it was merely a tool as other's have used to illustrate functionality of various instruments.

On Sunday, July 3, 2016 at 7:59:28 AM UTC-6, wrote:
I get a chuckle when I see "extra" add on features offered for one of the most popular "entertainment centers" for $650 to $1650 a pop. Ninety percent of the offered up- grades are in the lowly obsolete SN-10.
JJ

Let me clarify a bit. Here is one of the things that turned me off to Ilec. A few years ago when the SN-10 was still available new I looked up pricing and a complete system with the Volkslogger (The only unit compatible with the SN-10) was around 6 grand. Hell, the converter required to plug in a thumb drive was $300! (With the new stuff you can use an SD card right into the instrument for free.)
With the modern integrated units in the $4000 at the time I thought I was missing something. Turns out I wasn't, The 10B was just crazy overpriced for the functionality. Every year LxNav puts out Firmware updates (For free) that enhances and adds features. We can argue who has the best Speed to Fly Vario but I will state with confidence that for the size the S7/S8 gives more info in a 57MM instrument than anyone. All at a glance no less. In the club ships one must scroll through several pages of the SN-10 for the same SA.
Another thing I noticed was that about 80 to 90% of the SN-10 guys use a PDA/PNA with their favorite software. I felt that if I were to do this as well, why bother with the Ilec at that point?

Having complete, high quality information including terrain clearance and glide range displayed in an efficient manner is a very, very nice to have. The brightness of the screen and the stick mounted control interface is everything you might expect it to be!

I just gave in and replaced my SN10b/Oudie with a CN2 before Nephi and was thoroughly, thouroughly impressed by the CN2 and vario. I had only one day to practice a short self made AAT task before jumping in. It was absolutely FLAWLESS. Nothing wrong with the SN10 for flatlands but the CN2 is without question simpler and more relaxing to manage, especially in terms of AAT or MAT tasks. It is a great soaring computer. The SN10 is a very good computer, but is not great now that I have seen the CN2.

Our "entertainment centers" are certainly an investment but they are also amazingly valuable. Oddly, the CN2 is not more complex, it was actually amazingly simple to use. Even simpler that the SN10 but with way more power. It was night and day for me to be honest compared to my Oudie/SN10b. I was hyper familiar with my SN10/Oudie but immediately my CN2 was better. Immediately, right out of the box. I had a new level of situational awareness and ease of use with it. I was immediately comfortable. When you get a second to glance into the cockpit (fairly rare in a contest), the info needed is instantaneous and clear!

I don't mean to be to positive about it, but the experience I have had this far has been nothing short of highly delightful.

For whatever it is worth...

Sean

Well just [to] clarify, many have busted airspace or gotten lost, a good
friend of mine was hopelessly lost over the Nevada nuclear test range,
quite a land out story. Anyone can make mistake and I certainly did not
mean to call into question anyones' airmanship, or thought process, it was
merely a tool as other's have used to illustrate functionality of various
instruments.


"Roger that,and understood," on the "not mean[ing] to call into question
anyone's airmanship, or thought processes..." Nor was my earlier bemusement at
how the metronomic regularity with which airspace violations have appeared in
"Soaring" mag contest writeups gratuitously meant in the "You dumb $#@t!"
genre. It just has long puzzled me. And, yeah, I understand Nevada generally
lacks "manmade ground features helpful for navigation." I also understand the
rationale - arguably "contest-useful" some years ago - that pushed the 17,999'
limit in booming western conditions "in the middle of nowhere" when so-doing
stood a chance of boosting one's daily contest performance in the absence of
draconian point penalties. But many of the penalties passingly noted in
"Soaring" (and continuingly more recently on the web site) occurred "east of
the Mississippi."

So - and I recognize my bemusement is likely to remain unaddressed on this
forum - my puzzlement remains. What leads to soaring pilots busting airspace
boundaries?

Bob W.

What leads to soaring pilots busting airspace boundaries?

Bob W.

Well... One reason would be distraction. Last month, cruising home
from Minden in my Stemme at 17,500' MSL, I got involved with changing
something on my Streak/XCSoar. I looked up at the panel to see the
altitude at 17,990'! I quickly pushed over. Fortunately the altitude
reported by my transponder was significantly lower.
--
Dan, 5J

On 7/6/2016 9:43 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
What leads to soaring pilots busting airspace boundaries?

Bob W.

Well... One reason would be distraction. Last month, cruising home from
Minden in my Stemme at 17,500' MSL, I got involved with changing something
on my Streak/XCSoar. I looked up at the panel to see the altitude at
17,990'! I quickly pushed over. Fortunately the altitude reported by my
transponder was significantly lower.

Thanks for the data point, Dan. Your vignette doesn't surprise me, people and
reality being what they are. (There might *BE* something to piloting's "Task
Prioritization Theory," particularly when it comes to aviating near thin
margins! )

Bob W.

On Wednesday, July 6, 2016 at 6:57:20 PM UTC-7, BobW wrote:
On 7/6/2016 9:43 AM, Dan Marotta wrote:
What leads to soaring pilots busting airspace boundaries?

Bob W.

Well... One reason would be distraction. Last month, cruising home from
Minden in my Stemme at 17,500' MSL, I got involved with changing something
on my Streak/XCSoar. I looked up at the panel to see the altitude at
17,990'! I quickly pushed over. Fortunately the altitude reported by my
transponder was significantly lower.

Thanks for the data point, Dan. Your vignette doesn't surprise me, people and
reality being what they are. (There might *BE* something to piloting's "Task
Prioritization Theory," particularly when it comes to aviating near thin
margins! )

Bob W.

I'm looking for a used SN-10B if anyone's got one collecting dust or will be switching instruments soon. Please email me cfunston redpointstructures.

Cheers,
Craig

I have 2.

On Sunday, July 17, 2016 at 8:51:20 PM UTC-7, Sean wrote:
I have 2.

Thanks Sean, I've sent an email so we can correspond offgroup.