The FAA sinks deeper into crap over Kentucky accident

Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
to meet diversity goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)

We know however that in the FAA the new priority is
Diversity and Gay groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle
conferences at resort hotels funded by a Feminist controlled
FAA. Those new priority items are funded without a problem
while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre and
stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!


LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on
duty the morning Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two
hours of sleep before starting work on the overnight shift,
a federal investigator said Wednesday.

National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman
said the controller had only nine hours off between work
shifts Saturday. That was just enough to meet federal rules,
which require a minimum of eight hours off between shifts,
Hersman said.

"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of
sleep," Hersman said.

The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been
released publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on
Saturday. He came back to work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day
to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.

How many more innocent people will die before the FAA
rearranges it's priorities BACK to aviation safety?

How many?

"FUBAR" wrote in message
. ..

Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at this
location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a dog as
many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians are.


We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time of the accident.



(While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or repair
sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to meet diversity
goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep requirements
by one hour.


So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding sleep requirements.
By the way, what are those requirements?



We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical people like
controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while some contractors swim
in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)

We know however that in the FAA the new priority is Diversity and Gay
groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at resort hotels
funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority items are funded
without a problem while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre
and stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!


LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning
Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep before starting
work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said Wednesday.

National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said the
controller had only nine hours off between work shifts Saturday. That was
just enough to meet federal rules, which require a minimum of eight hours
off between shifts, Hersman said.

"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep,"
Hersman said.

The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released
publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday. He came back to
work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.

How many more innocent people will die before the FAA rearranges it's
priorities BACK to aviation safety?

How many?


Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash?

FUBAR wrote:

Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
to meet diversity goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
..
Delleted fluff

Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed.
Bottom line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.

Ron Lee

A tower controller's duties do not include watching the only
aircraft moving on the airport and taking off. So whether
he was looking out the window and sitting at a desk doing
the reports does not make the FAA responsible for the crash.
The flight crew is expected to use the available signage and
diagrams to find the correct runway and to verify that the
assigned runway is adequate for the aircraft. Verification
of the runway IS the PIC's job and responsibility.


If the controller cleared two aircraft to land and take-off
on runway 22 and 04 at the same time, then the controller
would be at fault in IMC, but in VFR the controller would be
contributory.

This controller seems to have done his job. The airport,
operated by the city[?], is responsible for the construction
and paint. The Airport operator is required to report
airport surface conditions so the NOTAMS can be up to date.
The airplane dispatchers is required to know and pass on
those NOTAMS and the PIC is required to get those NOTAMS.


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote
in message
k.net...
|
| "FUBAR" wrote in message
| . ..
|
| Sound Familiar? Let's see!
|
| What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?
|
| We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this
| location. We know the Veteran controller was being
worked like a dog as
| many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and
technicians are.
|
|
| We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time
of the accident.
|
|
|
| (While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control
traffic or repair
| sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to
meet diversity
| goals)
|
| The controller just missed violating orders regarding
sleep requirements
| by one hour.
|
|
| So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding
sleep requirements.
| By the way, what are those requirements?
|
|
|
| We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical
people like
| controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while
some contractors swim
| in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)
|
| We know however that in the FAA the new priority is
Diversity and Gay
| groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at
resort hotels
| funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority
items are funded
| without a problem while veteran controllers and
technicians work bizarre
| and stressful shifts and in many locations are
undermanned.
|
| Hmmmmmmmmmmm................
|
| Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better
be
| fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!
|
|
| LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on
duty the morning
| Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep
before starting
| work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said
Wednesday.
|
| National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie
Hersman said the
| controller had only nine hours off between work shifts
Saturday. That was
| just enough to meet federal rules, which require a
minimum of eight hours
| off between shifts, Hersman said.
|
| "He advised our team that he got approximately two hours
of sleep,"
| Hersman said.
|
| The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not
been released
| publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on
Saturday. He came back to
| work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an
eight-hour overnight shift.
|
| How many more innocent people will die before the FAA
rearranges it's
| priorities BACK to aviation safety?
|
| How many?
|
|
| Did the controller make any error that contributed to this
crash?
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:FvDJg.6478$SZ3.303@dukeread04...

A tower controller's duties do not include watching the only
aircraft moving on the airport and taking off. So whether
he was looking out the window and sitting at a desk doing
the reports does not make the FAA responsible for the crash.
The flight crew is expected to use the available signage and
diagrams to find the correct runway and to verify that the
assigned runway is adequate for the aircraft. Verification
of the runway IS the PIC's job and responsibility.

If the controller cleared two aircraft to land and take-off
on runway 22 and 04 at the same time, then the controller
would be at fault in IMC, but in VFR the controller would be
contributory.

This controller seems to have done his job. The airport,
operated by the city[?], is responsible for the construction
and paint. The Airport operator is required to report
airport surface conditions so the NOTAMS can be up to date.
The airplane dispatchers is required to know and pass on
those NOTAMS and the PIC is required to get those NOTAMS.


Correct.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"FUBAR" wrote in message
. ..

Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at this
location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a dog as
many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians are.



We know that he wasn't being worked like a dog at the time of the accident.



(While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or repair
sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to meet diversity
goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep requirements
by one hour.



So we know that he was in compliance of orders regarding sleep requirements.
By the way, what are those requirements?



We know staffing and funding in the FAA for critical people like
controllers and technicians is cut short. (All while some contractors swim
in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)

We know however that in the FAA the new priority is Diversity and Gay
groups and Female sensitivity boon doggle conferences at resort hotels
funded by a Feminist controlled FAA. Those new priority items are funded
without a problem while veteran controllers and technicians work bizarre
and stressful shifts and in many locations are undermanned.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm................

Repeat after me-FAA-Swarm of lawyer sharks-Wallet-Better be
fat-CHAAAAAAAAAAAA-Chinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggg!!!


LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) - The lone air traffic controller on duty the morning
Comair Flight 5191 crashed had only two hours of sleep before starting
work on the overnight shift, a federal investigator said Wednesday.

National Transportation Safety Board member Debbie Hersman said the
controller had only nine hours off between work shifts Saturday. That was
just enough to meet federal rules, which require a minimum of eight hours
off between shifts, Hersman said.

"He advised our team that he got approximately two hours of sleep,"
Hersman said.

The controller, a 17-year veteran whose name has not been released
publicly, worked from 6:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. on Saturday. He came back to
work at 11:30 p.m. on the same day to begin an eight-hour overnight shift.

How many more innocent people will die before the FAA rearranges it's
priorities BACK to aviation safety?

How many?



Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash?



"Did the controller make any error that contributed to this
crash"? Probably not

Did the FAA make any errors that contributed to this crash? Yes

The FAA violated their own staffing orders for LEX

The FAA orders clearly state you must have two controllers
on duty if you are working the field and Radar approach

End of subject

Lawyers get rich

Read 1997 Guam Korean Air and the fat check the FAA cut

Reason?

The FAA violated their own orders in Guam.

Read it sometime. Quite interesting how far the web of
liability reaches during a commercial airline accident with
fatalities and good lawyers

The web is big and sticky

The FAA is caught now in the web of liability, hung in the
middle with the giant spider of litigation poised to bite
and suck tax money by the gazillions.

By the way, the controller just came off a shift with very
little sleep. He WAS worked like a dog sir. You see this is
common practice now in the FAA as the diversity hiring and
politically correct house of cards the FAA has built since
the Clinton Administration starts to crumble.

As experienced controllers and technicians(Mostly White
Males) work double shifts, back to back shifts and endure
pathetic unqualified management(Mostly Minority and
Female)the old and tired rubber band sometimes stretchs and
snaps. ALL this as the FAA rams more and more incompetent
women and minorities down the workforces throat under the
guise of politically correct tyranny.

The rubber band snapped at LEX Sunday

Soon many more will snap unless the FAA starts a numbered
bid system and goes with aviation related qualifications
rather than social engineering SCAMS and diversity within a
super sophisticated operational environment that requires
the brightest and best.

Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white
heterosexual males have retired or quit in the last year??

You will be surprised

Many more rubber bands will continue to snap unless the FAA
radically changes it's priorities back to aviation safety
rather than social engineering and "Kissing the Black Ass"

You will see

"FUBAR" wrote in message
.. .

"Did the controller make any error that contributed to this crash"?
Probably not

Did the FAA make any errors that contributed to this crash? Yes

The FAA violated their own staffing orders for LEX

The FAA orders clearly state you must have two controllers on duty if you
are working the field and Radar approach

End of subject


Would this crash have been prevented if two controllers had been on duty?



By the way, the controller just came off a shift with very little sleep.
He WAS worked like a dog sir.

No he wasn't. The traffic as reported at LEX during the night hours doesn't
by itself justify having the ATC facility open at all. I have to conclude
it's open only to provide radar coverage to the area.



You see this is common practice now in the FAA as the diversity hiring and
politically correct house of cards the FAA has built since the Clinton
Administration starts to crumble.

As experienced controllers and technicians(Mostly White Males) work double
shifts, back to back shifts and endure pathetic unqualified
management(Mostly Minority and Female)the old and tired rubber band
sometimes stretchs and snaps. ALL this as the FAA rams more and more
incompetent women and minorities down the workforces throat under the
guise of politically correct tyranny.

The rubber band snapped at LEX Sunday

Soon many more will snap unless the FAA starts a numbered bid system and
goes with aviation related qualifications rather than social engineering
SCAMS and diversity within a super sophisticated operational environment
that requires the brightest and best.

Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white heterosexual
males have retired or quit in the last year??

You will be surprised

Many more rubber bands will continue to snap unless the FAA radically
changes it's priorities back to aviation safety rather than social
engineering and "Kissing the Black Ass"

You will see


There's nothing you can tell me about the FAA.

Ron Lee wrote:
FUBAR wrote:


Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the
Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT
staffing at this location. We know the Veteran controller
was being worked like a dog as many "Veteran and
experienced" controllers and technicians are. (While many
incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic or
repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management
to meet diversity goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in
the FAA for critical people like controllers and technicians
is cut short. (All while some contractors swim in FAA tax
gravy money treated like Kings and Queens)

.
Delleted fluff

Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed.
Bottom line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.

Ron Lee


We won't learn much if we categorically state at this time that the
pilots were the only reason for the crash. Almost certainly their
actions will end up being the probable cause, but we have yet to know
about contribution factors; i.e., the Jeppesen and NACO charts show
different taxiway names. Was the signage up to snuff? Did the company
dispatcher do his/her part? Runway 26 shows on the airport diagrams as
being much narrower than 22, but this was done with paint; the physical
runway appears to be as wide as 22.

I do agree that the controller was almost certainly not a contributing
factor, except the NTSB might say he contributed to the slight extent
that he was not watching (even though he was not required to). This one
is sticky because there should have been two of them on duty. This can
end up being a contribution cause without the controller having failed
to do his job.

Sam Spade wrote:
Ron Lee wrote:

FUBAR wrote:


Sound Familiar? Let's see!

What has the flying public found out so far about the Kentucky tragedy?

We know FAA violated their own orders for minimal ATCT staffing at
this location. We know the Veteran controller was being worked like a
dog as many "Veteran and experienced" controllers and technicians
are. (While many incompetent FAA employees who can't control traffic
or repair sophisticated equipment are promoted into Management to
meet diversity goals)

The controller just missed violating orders regarding sleep
requirements by one hour. We know staffing and funding in the FAA for
critical people like controllers and technicians is cut short. (All
while some contractors swim in FAA tax gravy money treated like Kings
and Queens)


.
Delleted fluff

Steven already covered the reasons why your view is flawed. Bottom
line is that there is ZERO evidence that the controller made
the pilots take off the wrong runway. The pilots alone are suspect
IMO. Taxiway painting, runway work, closed taxiway...etc are
irrelevant. They had one useable runway and they missed it.

Ron Lee


We won't learn much if we categorically state at this time that the
pilots were the only reason for the crash. Almost certainly their
actions will end up being the probable cause, but we have yet to know
about contribution factors; i.e., the Jeppesen and NACO charts show
different taxiway names. Was the signage up to snuff? Did the company
dispatcher do his/her part? Runway 26 shows on the airport diagrams as
being much narrower than 22, but this was done with paint; the physical
runway appears to be as wide as 22.

I do agree that the controller was almost certainly not a contributing
factor, except the NTSB might say he contributed to the slight extent
that he was not watching (even though he was not required to). This one
is sticky because there should have been two of them on duty. This can
end up being a contribution cause without the controller having failed
to do his job.

"This one is sticky"

You sir win the grand prize!

Read about the 1997 Korean Air Guam accident. Very different
circumstances but the LIABILITY issues are similar. In court
it was ruled the FAA WAS LIABLE for several reasons but the
overall mitigating circumstance was the FAA violated their
own orders.

Those FAA orders are for a reason. Many FAA orders are a
direct result of accidents and NTSB investigations and
advisement.

When the FAA and Government fails to follow their own
official orders they are liable. End of story.


Your tax dollars at work

FUBAR wrote:

Call the FAA some time and ask how many experienced white
heterosexual males have retired or quit in the last year??

"Hello, you've reached the FAA."

"Hi. Can you tell me how many white, heterosexual males have retired
or quit in the last year?"

"What? Are you an idiot?"

"No, but I know someone who is..."

click


You will be surprised

Wasn't surprising at all.

--
Don Poitras