In Flight Malfunctions and Emergencies

Rocky,
I was referring to the person with "full aft cyclic" and still dragging the
pitot tube (on the nose of the aircraft) on the ground.

Bob

"Bob" wrote in
:

Rocky,
I was referring to the person with "full aft cyclic" and still
dragging the pitot tube (on the nose of the aircraft) on the ground.

Lots of collective is the only thing that kept him moving. He was getting
into dynamic rollover, and bottoming the collective might have helped, but
I don't think more collective was going to do anything good here.
Fortunately I wasn't in the cockpit, so I can't say for sure how much he
pulled, or whether more or less would have helped.

--
Regards,

Stan

Hi Larry:
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but those weights you are
describing are not used for collective/cyclic input. According to the
Hiller manual they are for vibration dampening of the cyclic controls.
"Vibration in the cyclic control system is dampened by two damper
assemblies, ine installed on each upper firewall bellcrank. Weights on
the damper assemblies are preadjusted to give the damper a natural
frequency of 690 cpm +/- 10 cpm. Both rectangular and cylindrical
weights are used.

I believe the weights you are describing that pertain to the
collective is the ballast assembly. This is located on top of the
rotor head and has two curved arms that come down on opposite sides of
the rotorhead. In the ends of these tubes weights can be inserted to
provide the appropriate amount of 'pull' when actuating the collective
and to adjust for collective stick 'creep'.

(steve) wrote in message . com...
Hi Larry:
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but those weights you are
describing are not used for collective/cyclic input. According to the
Hiller manual they are for vibration dampening of the cyclic controls.
"Vibration in the cyclic control system is dampened by two damper
assemblies, ine installed on each upper firewall bellcrank. Weights on
the damper assemblies are preadjusted to give the damper a natural
frequency of 690 cpm +/- 10 cpm. Both rectangular and cylindrical
weights are used.

I believe the weights you are describing that pertain to the
collective is the ballast assembly. This is located on top of the
rotor head and has two curved arms that come down on opposite sides of
the rotorhead. In the ends of these tubes weights can be inserted to
provide the appropriate amount of 'pull' when actuating the collective
and to adjust for collective stick 'creep'.


Steve
You are right! Now you see why I was never certified as an A&P! To
further illuminate their location, they always reminded me of the
"rabbit ear" antennas on televisions. That entire rotorhead assembly
was different from the Bell and was a big difference when going from
one to the other in flight control characteristics.
Thanks for the clarification and correction.
Rocky

Stan Gosnell wrote in message ...
"Bob" wrote in
:

Rocky,
I was referring to the person with "full aft cyclic" and still
dragging the pitot tube (on the nose of the aircraft) on the ground.

Lots of collective is the only thing that kept him moving. He was getting
into dynamic rollover, and bottoming the collective might have helped, but
I don't think more collective was going to do anything good here.
Fortunately I wasn't in the cockpit, so I can't say for sure how much he
pulled, or whether more or less would have helped.

Stan and Bob
One time I had to take a farmer up in the Hiller to ID a field to
spray. He was a really big guy - 6'6" and about 240#. We lifted off,
went to the field and returned, no problem. There was another
helicopter (Bell 47) working from a truck ahead of mine and he was
sitting there taking on a load of chemical as we approached my spot.
Well, as I began to flare to slow down, it didn't slow down and not
much flare! I kept pulling aft cyclic and it was at the stops (I
thought) when my pax said "Go around if you can..." and I pulled pitch
and began a turn and climb to avoid the 47 sitting ahead of me. I
glanced over at my pax and he was pushing himself up and back in the
seat to give the cyclic more aft movement. Seems I had pulled the
cyclic into his crotch during the flare and THAT is what limited the
aft movement! We both got a chuckle out of that afterwards and I
learned he was also a race pilot at the Nationals......
He was smart enough not to use the pedals to push himself back in the
seat or we might have been on the NEWS AT 5.
Rocky

Stan Gosnell wrote in message ...
"Bob" wrote in
:

Rocky,
I was referring to the person with "full aft cyclic" and still
dragging the pitot tube (on the nose of the aircraft) on the ground.

Lots of collective is the only thing that kept him moving. He was getting
into dynamic rollover, and bottoming the collective might have helped, but
I don't think more collective was going to do anything good here.
Fortunately I wasn't in the cockpit, so I can't say for sure how much he
pulled, or whether more or less would have helped.

Stan & Bob
It makes me think of a time when I had to take a farmer up in the
Hiller to check a field for positive ID. He was a big guy at 6'6" and
about 240#. We took off, checked the field, no problem. On return,
there was a Bell 47 working ahead of me with his nurse rig on the
ground, and as I began to flare, it wouldn't slow down. I pulled aft
cyclic to what I thought were the stops and it kept going. My pax
hollered "can you go around?" and I began doing so to avoid hitting
the 47 at the same time. I pulled pitch and turned with room to spare
and glanced over at my pax who was pushing himself farther back and up
in the seat. Turns out the cyclic was jammed back into his crotch
while I was trying to flare it out! We made a good landing the 2nd
time around. Then I learned the guy was also a race pilot at the
Nationals and had sense enough to keep his feet off the pedals while
he pushed himself back in the seat. We got a chuckle out of that after
the fact. It also taught me to not put any pax in the left seat when
the duals were installed!
Best Regards
Rocky

Stan Gosnell wrote:

"Bob" wrote in
:



Rocky,
I was referring to the person with "full aft cyclic" and still
dragging the pitot tube (on the nose of the aircraft) on the ground.



Lots of collective is the only thing that kept him moving. He was getting
into dynamic rollover, and bottoming the collective might have helped, but
I don't think more collective was going to do anything good here.
Fortunately I wasn't in the cockpit, so I can't say for sure how much he
pulled, or whether more or less would have helped.


Stan & Bob
It makes me think of a time when I had to go up witha pilot in a
Hiller to check my field for positive ID. He was a little guy at 5'6" and
about 140#. We took off, checked the field, no problem. On return,
there was a Bell 47 working ahead of us with his chopper on the
ground, and as we began to approach, it wouldn't slow down. He pulled aft
cyclic to what he thought were the stops and it kept going. I
hollered "can you go around?" and he began doing so to avoid hitting
the 47 at the same time. He pulled pitch and turned with room to spare
and glanced over at me, while I was pushing myself farther back and up
in the seat. The cyclic was jammed back into my crotch
while he was trying to flare it out! We made a good landing the 2nd
time around. Then I told him I was also a race pilot at the
Nationals.At least I had sense enough to keep my feet off the pedals while
I pushed myself back in the seat. We got a chuckle out of that after
the fact. What a wild ride!!

seeya
ref

p.s. This post is just a joke, for those who just think it a great coincidence!



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After reading the Hiller & the big farmer story, I thought I'd
relate something funny that happened to me.

Last week I was doing a sightseeing tour over the reef. The pax
in the left seat was a tiny little gal who was maybe 100 lbs wet.
We'd been in the air for about 30 minutes and she seemed to be
enjoying herself a lot, taking pictures and commenting on all the
sea life. Well then it happened... we were about 100 ft off the
water over the reef when she announces that she's going to throw up.
I asked one of the pax in the back to hand a bag of some kind to her.
They handed her the small gym bag I carry spare life vests and
headsets in. I pulled her mic boom away from her face, and she
went for it.

On the first convulsion, she pushed the collective down. I'm
used to that by now, because no matter how many times I tell
people to stay away from it, they always seem to sit on it.
Then she did something no one's ever done. With each convulsion
forward she'd lean into the cyclic. She did it with such force
that it surprised the hell out of me. You would of thought I was
playing tug of war with a 220lb guy for how much force it took
to hold the stick steady. The convulsions were so loud that she
was breaking the squelch on MY mic. After about a minute of this
she announced that she felt much better, and we all had a pretty
good laugh.

This might not sound all that scary, but I was pretty nervous about
having an unpredictable spastic critter in the copilots seat
(no matter how pretty).

Bart

Rocky wrote:
Seems this area hasn't been touched in awhile and the group is getting
stale. Well, let me stir the pot and see who is still aboard.

one of the friend of a friend kind of story, reality to truth ?? not too far
off

the pilot dropped two engineering summer students off near the top of a
mountain to examine a communications shell for the day.
after they departed and removed their equip, hunkered down behind a rock.
pilot lifted off and established a circuit over the pax to make sure all was
ok (no arms flailing to notify they left anything onboard - like all good
pilots do)
what he saw was the pax rolling around on the ground, obviously in some sort
of distress, landed back at the same spot to find out what was wrong.
what had happened was that these two bush greenhorns had thought that bear
spray (pepper spray/mace) was applied like mosquito repellant, and suffered
the consiquence !!

Rocky wrote:
Seems this area hasn't been touched in awhile and the group is getting
stale. Well, let me stir the pot and see who is still aboard.

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 18:46:19 -0500, Bart wrote:

On the first convulsion, she pushed the collective down. I'm
used to that by now, because no matter how many times I tell
people to stay away from it, they always seem to sit on it.
Then she did something no one's ever done. With each convulsion
forward she'd lean into the cyclic. She did it with such force
that it surprised the hell out of me. You would of thought I was
playing tug of war with a 220lb guy for how much force it took
to hold the stick steady.

WHY would you leave the copilot controls installed when carrying a non-pilot
passenger in that seat? What happened to you is the very reason I was told
that you want to ALWAYS remove controls unless the person sitting in that
seat is qualified to use them.

--
J Dana Eckart, PhD, PP-RH, KA4EVL | People who think that life couldn't be
Virginia Bioinformatics Institute | better lack vision, and those who think
| it couldn't be worse lack imagination.