Gear Warning

My one gear warning save happened while doing touch and goes with my Mooney.
Neglected to raise the gear on take-off, then abeam the numbers, flipped the
gear switch up. Briefly wondered why that darn distracting beep-beep-beep
thing was making such a racket. Within a second or two, came to my senses
and exclaiming to myself, "Holy Bananas" (or some similar, equally
appropriate thing). Switch down, no damage, glad there's a gear warning horn
even though I'm originally a Brit'.

bumper

At 03:42 18 November 2005, Wayne Paul wrote:



Or a Radio Shack piezo buzzer (smoke alarm.) In fact
it is so loud that I
mounted it in a sound attenuation box.

It is actuated when flap setting is greater then 40
degrees and gear is up.

and if that goes off at 50 feet on a marginal final
glide when you have kept the glider clean to get onto
the field?

It is just a question, not meant in any way as a critisism
and I use 'you' in the collective sense.


Wayne
HP-14 N990 '6F'
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/HP-14/N990/N990.html

At 10:30 18 November 2005, Don Johnstone wrote:

A short story: When I was a lad I was interested in
all things flying and I was in a control tower at an
airfield in the UK. The circuit (pattern) was full
with about 8-10 aircraft performing 'circuits and bumps'
(It was in the days when the RAF were allowed to fly
their aeroplanes). An aircraft turned finals still
well out and a slightly excited voice said on the radio
[callsign] 'lower your undercarriage' The two aircraft
on very late finals promptly retracted their undercarriage
and landed wheels up, lots of sparks and minor panic
in the control tower.
I am sure the man on the radio meant well but the proper
procedure was to fire off a red very light forcing
a go round.
Just an illustration of how a well intentioned warning
can go wrong. I was 14 at the time, the response of
the fire teams was impressive. No pilot was injured
in the telling of this story.

Don Johnstone wrote:
..... No pilot was injured
in the telling of this story.

And this is, by far, the typical outcome of any gear up landing - power
or glider.

Tony V.
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/SOARING

"Nigel Pocock" wrote:

One problem with a recorded voice is that it sounds
like background radio chatter and your brain filters
it out (or at least mine does)

Absolutely true. One member of my club installed a gear warning and recorded
a message on it like "If you´re going to land, lower the gear NOW". He was
the first one to ignore his own message.

On the other hand, I once flew in Hungary, and my brain filtered out all
radio messages which were mostly in Hungarian language. The airport tried to
call me (in English and German) while my workload was high, and they had no
chance to get through to me. Then they had my girlfriend call me on the
radio and got an immediate reply. It seems like somehow I´m conditioned to
listen whenever the boss is speaking ;-))

Michael

Don Johnstone wrote:
At 03:42 18 November 2005, Wayne Paul wrote:


Or a Radio Shack piezo buzzer (smoke alarm.) In fact
it is so loud that I
mounted it in a sound attenuation box.

It is actuated when flap setting is greater then 40
degrees and gear is up.


and if that goes off at 50 feet on a marginal final
glide when you have kept the glider clean to get onto
the field?

I'm sure Wayne will tell you why this isn't a problem. But, how can we
avoid the problem suggested by the question?

Malfunctioning warnings: one that goes off when it shouldn't shortly
before touch down seems so rare it's not worth worrying about. Gear
warnings save enough damage and blocked runways that I think they add
more safety than this situation subtracts.

Pilots that don't check their spoilers until close to the ground: this
seems like a training issue or self-discipline issue, either about
pre-landing checks, or very marginal returns to the airport.

Pilots who react poorly to a gear warning when low: perhaps this can be
handled as a training issue. I've seen several pilots extend their gear
safely at the last moment (less that 50' above the ground) and land
normally, and never seen an accident from doing that, so it's possible
to do, even with pilots not trained and ready for it. Perhaps pilots
with gear warnings should occasionally practice this at altitude,
opening the spoilers with the gear up, then lowering the gear. The best
procedure for dealing with the warning when close to the ground could be
selected (just put the gear down, or maybe close the spoilers first, or
even "ignore the damn thing and land on the belly").

Frankly, I think we should be a lot more concerned about the lack of a
"unlocked spoiler" alarm, or "canopy unlatched" alarm, than the
potential injuries caused by a gear up alarm. Unlocked spoilers and
unlatched canopies have caused far more accidents than gear warning
systems.

After learning how many pilots in our ASH 26 E owners newsgroup had
taken off with their spoilers unlocked, I added a "spoilers unlocked"
warning to my ASH 26 E. It was easy to do, because my Cambridge 302
vario has this feature built into it. It requires only the usual two
switches, one for the gear down and locked signal, and one for the
spoiler open signal. Of course, it also provides a "gear up" warning. A
nice feature is the gear up warning can be silenced temporarily with a
button press; for example, when I need to use the spoilers to remain
clear of cloud, or descend to fly with a glider lower than me.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

There is a solution to this problem; I learned it the
hard way. Say to yourself 'The gear HANDLE is at the
gear-down ICON. A fellow in Minden told me this beforehand.
I didn't pay a lot of attention. I paid a lot of
money. Now I use this phrase religiously.


I switched between three new to me gliders in 4 days.
The retract movement was in opposite directions on
two of them. I went the lwrong way on the last flight.
Use the words HANDLE and ICON.



At 22:24 16 November 2005, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Mike the Strike wrote:
I prefer check lists, but must note I have seen another
colleague
return from a flight with gear extended then retract
it on final as he
went through his pre-landing checks!

Same thing happened to me on my first flight in the
first glider I
owned. On pattern entry I went through my pre-landing
checklist,
operated the gear handle, opened the spoilers, then
heard a load beeping
noise. Closed the spoilers, beeping stopped. It took
a fair bit of
contemplation to recognize that the glider might have
a gear warning
system. A quick glance at the gear position symbols
allowed me to solve
the mystery while still plenty high. I must have forgotten
to retract
the gear after release...

Marc

T o d d P a t t i s t wrote:

Eric Greenwell wrote:

After learning how many pilots in our ASH 26 E owners newsgroup had
taken off with their spoilers unlocked, I added a "spoilers unlocked"
warning to my ASH 26 E. It was easy to do, because my Cambridge 302
vario has this feature built into it. It requires only the usual two
switches, one for the gear down and locked signal, and one for the
spoiler open signal.


How does it tell the difference between takeoff - gear down,
spoilers open and landing - gear down, spoilers open?

It triggers the warning when the spoilers are unlocked and the airspeed
exceeds 25 knots. From the Cambridge manual:

The audible warning is a “European Police Car” sound. Warnings are heard even though
the audio volume control is set to zero. Alarms are cancelled by correcting the condition,
or by tapping on the instrument knob.

and ...

Try each of the alarm situations regularly during normal glider operation. This tests the
switches. You will also become familiar with the alarm sound, and get some practice
correcting each alarm condition. This will help you respond quickly and calmly in a real
emergency situation.

Todd continues:

I've seen a nice installation that uses a microswitch on the
towring release mechanism to differentiate take-off from
landing, but not many are comfortable retrofitting something
that close to the release mechanism, even where it's legal
to do so. It would be nice if Tost would build an optional
switch for this job.

The airspeed method is particularly useful for a self-launching
motorglider, my situation, and is simpler than installing a switch on
the release mechanism (especially on gliders with aero and ground launch
hooks). The 302 vario normally connects to the pitot and static, so no
additional connections are needed beyond the usual spoiler and gear
switches.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

At 16:42 18 November 2005, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Don Johnstone wrote:
At 03:42 18 November 2005, Wayne Paul wrote:


Or a Radio Shack piezo buzzer (smoke alarm.) In fact
it is so loud that I
mounted it in a sound attenuation box.

It is actuated when flap setting is greater then 40
degrees and gear is up.


and if that goes off at 50 feet on a marginal final
glide when you have kept the glider clean to get onto
the field?

I'm sure Wayne will tell you why this isn't a problem.
But, how can we
avoid the problem suggested by the question?

You can't if a warning is fitted and I accept that
in some cases it will never be a problem because of
aircraft/approach type.
Malfunctioning warnings: one that goes off when it
shouldn't shortly
before touch down seems so rare it's not worth worrying
about. Gear
warnings save enough damage and blocked runways that
I think they add
more safety than this situation subtracts.

It is not just a malfunction even a real warning at
that height can distract enough from 'flying the aeroplane'
to turn an incident into a serious crash. I have never
heard of anyone being seriously injured or killed as
the result of a wheels up. There have been accidents
involving serious injury as the result of undercarriage
warnings.

Pilots that don't check their spoilers until close
to the ground: this
seems like a training issue or self-discipline issue,
either about
pre-landing checks, or very marginal returns to the
airport.

Marginal glides are very common in competitions.

Pilots who react poorly to a gear warning when low:
perhaps this can be
handled as a training issue. I've seen several pilots
extend their gear
safely at the last moment (less that 50' above the
ground) and land
normally, and never seen an accident from doing that,
so it's possible
to do, even with pilots not trained and ready for it.
Perhaps pilots
with gear warnings should occasionally practice this
at altitude,
opening the spoilers with the gear up, then lowering
the gear.

There is a world of difference between deliberately
leaving the gear selection to very late to achieve
the best glide and being startled by a sudden loud
noise in the cockpit. It is the unexpected and the
'instinctive' reaction that is the root of the problem.

The best
procedure for dealing with the warning when close to
the ground could be
selected (just put the gear down, or maybe close the
spoilers first, or
even 'ignore the damn thing and land on the belly').

The last is the only option imo which begs the question...........

In article , Don Johnstone REMOVE_TO_REP
writes
At 10:30 18 November 2005, Don Johnstone wrote:

A short story: When I was a lad I was interested in
all things flying and I was in a control tower at an
airfield in the UK. The circuit (pattern) was full
with about 8-10 aircraft performing 'circuits and bumps'
(It was in the days when the RAF were allowed to fly
their aeroplanes). An aircraft turned finals still
well out and a slightly excited voice said on the radio
[callsign] 'lower your undercarriage' The two aircraft
on very late finals promptly retracted their undercarriage
and landed wheels up, lots of sparks and minor panic
in the control tower.
I am sure the man on the radio meant well but the proper
procedure was to fire off a red very light forcing
a go round.
Just an illustration of how a well intentioned warning
can go wrong. I was 14 at the time, the response of
the fire teams was impressive. No pilot was injured
in the telling of this story.


When I was stationed visited the tower at RAF Tangmere in 1957, the
chaps used to make their finals call "Finals, three greens" There was
always a spare pilot in the tower to ensure the wheels really were down,
and they weren't just calling three greens out of habit.


--
Mike Lindsay