Have you ever...

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

Snipola
The loss of airports is not a result of a diminishing number of
pilots. It's largely motivated by encroaching homeowners and greedy
developers, not a dearth of pilots.
Snipola

The only thing that's prevented me from going for a license
is the cost. I have been interested in learning to fly since
at least the late 80's but have never had enough spare cash.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
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Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 04:16:06 -0000, Skywise
wrote in
::

The only thing that's prevented me from going for a license
is the cost. I have been interested in learning to fly since
at least the late 80's but have never had enough spare cash.

I would expect that to be the number one barrier to holding an
airman's certificate among those who are otherwise qualified.

But piloting is costlier than what you probably expect. Finding the
means to complete airman training only opens the door. Once
certificated, you're interminably committed to the cost of maintaining
currency with frequent flights.

Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 04:16:06 -0000, Skywise
wrote in
::

The only thing that's prevented me from going for a license
is the cost. I have been interested in learning to fly since
at least the late 80's but have never had enough spare cash.

I would expect that to be the number one barrier to holding an
airman's certificate among those who are otherwise qualified.

But piloting is costlier than what you probably expect. Finding the
means to complete airman training only opens the door. Once
certificated, you're interminably committed to the cost of maintaining
currency with frequent flights.

Exactly. At one time I had enough saved to get through
school but I didn't have enough spare cash on a regular
basis to keep up the hours.

Heck, now, I can't do anything extra, even my small hobbies.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Highflyer wrote:

A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin.

There are aircraft which go into a spiral dive after a couple of turns, so
be sure to know the spin characteristics fo yours before attempting a spin
in IMC.

Stefan

That cannot happen if they remain in the spin. There are indeed some
aircraft, my current ride is one, that will not remain in a spin, even with
full prospin controls. Most of the aircraft being flown back in the
twenties and early thirties did not have that problem and would remain in a
spin quite nicely.

I will admit that my current ride was designed in 1936 and manufactured in
1942 for the Army Air Corps. Quite a few of the WWII aircraft did NOT have
real good spin characteristics.

Many aircraft designed and certified AFTER WWII were never spun even for
certification.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

"Klein" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:13:25 +0200, Stefan
wrote:

Highflyer wrote:

A spin is STABLE. You cannot dive into the ground at Vne + from a spin.

There are aircraft which go into a spiral dive after a couple of turns,
so be sure to know the spin characteristics fo yours before attempting a
spin in IMC.

Stefan

Among such airplanes that won't stay in a spin is Highflyer's Stinson
Reliant. Well, I don't know for sure about his but I do know for sure
about my Reliant - after about three turns, it evolves into a spiral
dive - I've tried to hold it in a spin and failed.

Klein


Klein,

To the best of my knowledge and the rumours I have heard from WWII Stinson
Reliant pilots ( mostly British ) no has ever been able to hold the Stinson
Reliant, at least the V77 model built as an AT19, into a spin for more than
three turns. When it was certified, after the war, as the V77 the FAA
required a placard on the dashboard saying "Intentional spins are
prohibited" :-)

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

NOTE: The annual rec.aviation Pinckneyville Flyin is coming up May 20,21,
and 22. Email Mary now if you are planning to drop in at
so she can arrange groceries. If you are a vegetarian let her know some
food preferences. She is doing special meals for vegetarians and would LOVE
some input on what they would prefer to eat while we are munching down on
large chunks of slightly charred cow. :-)

Highflyer wrote:
I will admit that my current ride was designed in 1936 and manufactured in
1942 for the Army Air Corps. Quite a few of the WWII aircraft did NOT have
real good spin characteristics.


I'm new around here. What is your current ride?




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

VE

I fear that if we continue to weed people out, we will find
ourselves more and more alone at the airports as the early Baby Boomers --
who make up a huge percentage of active pilots -- start to die out.

Is that an original notion you formed, or is it an agenda supported by
others? Is it in any way related to your aviation-based enterprise?

Yes and no -- but probably not for the reasons you suspect.

My fear of aviation dying is related to the hotel because I love the
aviation aspect of our inn, and I would hate to lose it.

However, if I lost every, single pilot who ever visits the hotel, our
business would drop -- at most -- 10%. Since we are currently up 52% over
last year -- which, itself was up 20% over 2003 -- losing all of our fly-in
guests would not harm us, businesswise.

Nevertheless, I would instantly sell the hotel if we were to ever lose our
fly-in guests. I have zero interest in running a regular hotel.

And I have even less interest in flying as an elite "sport", something to be
done only by the rich and daring. That's NOT what flying was meant to be in
America, and -- after watching what has happened to aviation in Europe
(thanks to outrageous taxation) -- I will do everything in my (very limited)
power to prevent that from happening here.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I'd definitely condense all the weather stuff into something more modern
and easier to remember!!! The weather stuff, with all its different
charts, meanings, lapse rates, etc, just make my head spin. It'll
probably be the hardest part of the oral.

John

I will second the weather stuff. I use AOPA's weather for flight planning. I
have never seen, and will never see any of the arcane weather maps that the
FAA uses in their tests. These maps exist in only in the FSS which I as a
private citizen and pilot can't visit without a background check and several
day advanced arangments.
I also think it's time for the FAA to get rid of all the abreviations in FA,
TAF, METAR, PIREP, WX, etc. These abreviations are no longer neccesary since
we aren't sending the data using morse code or 300 baud modems.


"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 04:16:06 -0000, Skywise
wrote in
::

The only thing that's prevented me from going for a license
is the cost. I have been interested in learning to fly since
at least the late 80's but have never had enough spare cash.

I would expect that to be the number one barrier to holding an
airman's certificate among those who are otherwise qualified.

But piloting is costlier than what you probably expect. Finding the
means to complete airman training only opens the door. Once
certificated, you're interminably committed to the cost of maintaining
currency with frequent flights.

Exactly. At one time I had enough saved to get through
school but I didn't have enough spare cash on a regular
basis to keep up the hours.

Heck, now, I can't do anything extra, even my small hobbies.

Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:05:26 GMT, "faky" wrote:

I will second the weather stuff. I use AOPA's weather for flight planning. I
have never seen, and will never see any of the arcane weather maps that the
FAA uses in their tests. These maps exist in only in the FSS which I as a
private citizen and pilot can't visit without a background check and several
day advanced arangments.
I also think it's time for the FAA to get rid of all the abreviations in FA,
TAF, METAR, PIREP, WX, etc. These abreviations are no longer neccesary since
we aren't sending the data using morse code or 300 baud modems.

That's something that could be easily remedied but getting change in a
government bureaucracy takes eons.


"Skywise" wrote in message
...
Larry Dighera wrote in
:

On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 04:16:06 -0000, Skywise
wrote in
::

The only thing that's prevented me from going for a license
is the cost. I have been interested in learning to fly since
at least the late 80's but have never had enough spare cash.

I would expect that to be the number one barrier to holding an
airman's certificate among those who are otherwise qualified.

But piloting is costlier than what you probably expect. Finding the
means to complete airman training only opens the door. Once
certificated, you're interminably committed to the cost of maintaining
currency with frequent flights.

Exactly. At one time I had enough saved to get through
school but I didn't have enough spare cash on a regular
basis to keep up the hours.

Heck, now, I can't do anything extra, even my small hobbies.

If you want it bad enough you'll do it!

First, before anything else you have to make your mind up that you are
going to become a pilot. Of course you have to have the health as
well and stay out of trouble.

Far too many just convince themselves it costs too much and they'll
never afford it, or they don't have enough to go all the way to a
license now so why bother? They'll wait until they can afford to do
the whole thing. There are many excuses for not flying *now*, but
most are just excuses. So what if you can only afford to take five or
10 lessons now? Do you want to do it or not? Sure it's cheaper in
the long run to do the whole thing at once and it takes fewer hours,
but it means you aren't flying at all.

When I was much younger I had enough money to start my training, but a
wife, two kids, and a new home in the country put a stop to that in
1963. I did fly three or four times in the intervening years, but it
was 1987 before I actually got back into flying. Then I had enough
saved up to take lessons and it only took about 6 months or a bit
less to earn my ticket and I did it while going to college full time
as well.

Yes, I know, the times don't add up until you realize I was 47 when I
quit work and went back to college full time. I earned a BS in
Computer Science with minors in Art and Math. Then started on my
Masters with a Graduate Assistantship.

If you think time is short, try fitting in flying while spending
nearly 8 hours at school and at least 8 more a day logged into the
school computer, or on your own, programming. as well as studying your
other classes.

Once you make your mind up, then develop a plan.
The main reason I didn't fly much during those intervening years was
the long drive to the airport, but if I'd had more drive (no pun
intended) I'd have done it.

So what if you can only afford to take a lesson once a month. Sure,
you aren't likely to solo at that rate, but you are learning and "you
are flying". Even if it's only once or twice a year to give yourself
a treat, you are "still flying".

Prior to quitting work to go to college full time I was carrying about
a half load at a two year college. I was taking courses that
interested me. When I went back full time I had 113 credit hours of
which only 17 counted. The point is, I had been learning and enjoying
the courses even if they didn't count. I went to college because I
wanted to do so, not because I had to.

As I said earlier, once you make your mind up that you are going to
learn to fly you are past the hardest of the hurdles. Sure, money and
time are issues for most of us, but making your mind up is number one!

Not enough money? Why? Can you remedy it? Certainly if you are
willing to commit yourself. It may take years to do so. Step number
one is get out of debt if you are in debt. Budget yourself and family
and organize time to minimize costs and trips. Job doesn't pay well?
Why not? Not enough education? Why not? Get the education and get
the job. Generally you have to expect to change locations when you
change jobs. As hard hit as the computer industry has been and with
so many out of work there are still jobs going begging and being
filled by "green cards" because the company couldn't find workers here
to take the jobs. Supporting a family and trying to make ends meet
with a low paying job? Start taking classes to qualify for a better
paying job.

There are more reasons people stay in low paying jobs than there are
reasons for those who don't fly .

It might take 20 years to get to the point of being able to take on
lessons with the expectation of flying regularly to finish up. It took
me 34! Still the occasional flight is worth it.

Flying does not have to be a rich person's sport and I would say that
half of the pilots at our airport are no more than average income with
some quite a bit less than average. Some fly ultra lights, some are
going for the new sport aviation license, some join clubs, and some
build their own.

The cost of staying Legally current doesn't have to be high, but again
it takes planning, imagination, and a bit of foresight.

I know one guy locally who built a nice little two seater who knew
when he started that he'd never be able to get a license due to his
health. He's out and around, but unable to even maintain a job, but
he built an airplane from plans and did a nice job too.

I was divorced in 80 and so far in debt I thought I'd never get out.
I met my current wife of over 20 years a year or two after that. Got
married, worked hard, saved, planned, and 5 years later went back to
college. Graduated, got a good job, put every cent I could to work,
worked seven years and retired. I'm not wealthy, but my wife and I
can do pretty much what we choose within reason.
(The 75 foot yacht is definitely out of the question)



Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism

Home of the Seismic FAQ
http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?