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How to get IFR Clearance enroute?



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 19th 04, 06:46 PM
Stimbo
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Default How to get IFR Clearance enroute?

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ
  #2  
Old May 19th 04, 07:18 PM
Dave Butler
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Stimbo wrote:
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.


I've never experienced the half-hour delay you describe. Of course, if you file
before leaving home in the expectation that you may or may not pick up a
clearance at some point way down the line, I can see where that could cause
problems. You were never "departed" by ATC from your point of origin, so sectors
on down the line never got your strip. When you call and want to pick up your
clearance, they don't know who you are. Your strip is sitting back at your
departure airport.


Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?


If you're near your destination, just call on the TRACON frequency and ask for a
"local IFR clearance" for arrival. In the destination-TRACON's airspace, I've
never had it denied.

Calling enroute (not the destination's airspace) I have had mixed results. It
doesn't hurt to ask. You'll either (a) get the clearance you want, or (b) be
told "unable" and directed to call Flight Service, in which case you, uhhhh,
call Flight Service. When I've done this, ATC had my clearance by the time I
switched frequencies. What's the half-hour delay? Never happened to me. I think
the Flight Service dude just types your flight plan directly into the ARTCC
computer.


I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.


My strategy is, if I think I might encounter IMC, I just go ahead and file from
the get-go. But you said you prefer to go VFR if able.

Do you mind talking to ATC when you're VFR? If not, you can use the technique
that's been described here in an earlier thread, where you file a flight plan,
check the IFR box, and then put "VFR/altitude" in the altitude box. That gets
you an ATC strip, and when you leave you call up ATC and ask for VFR advisories
and tell them "you probably already have a strip for me". That gets you
"departed". Stay with the VFR advisories all the way along, and when you get to
some IMC, you can ask for a clearance, and they already have all the information
on you. Google for the -long- thread in which this was discussed on r.a.i.

Dave
Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

  #4  
Old May 20th 04, 04:16 AM
Maule Driver
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Filing with FSS from the next nearest radio aid works pretty well for me.
Doesn't take a half hour and even if it does, Center or Approach will
generally give some sort of clearance pending the plan showing up.

NJ to FL - if you know you will run into some IMC why not file and fly IFR?
South of DC, IFR is as easy and almost as flexible as VFR. Makes it easier
to stay clear of all the Restricted space to the south and makes management
of MOAs easier.

And I tend to be pretty careful about penetrating "cumulus build-ups in
front of me", especially the further south I go. And If I'm going to go
play among the buildups, going IFR is the easiest way to get radar
advisories and it's the legal way to visually fly the cloud canyons that us
normally aspirated guys sometimes have to fly. The folks in places like JAX
center are totally on board with what you are doing and will give you every
chance to remain visual while IFR if that's an option on a given day.

Try to do it IFR and you may find it easier and more convenient, at least
south of DC.

""Stimbo" wrote in message
om...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ



  #5  
Old May 20th 04, 05:04 AM
Snowbird
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(Stimbo) wrote in message . com...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?


Ask .

More specifically: it helps ATC if your info is in the system. The
more info in the system, the more it helps.

Officially, the way to obtain an IFR clearance enroute is to contact
FSS in the air, file an IFR flight plan with them from some point
your route will cross (navaid, intersection, airport) to your
destination, request the correct facility and freq. to contact ATC
if you don't know.

Then call up ATC. Advice about what exactly to say varies. I'd
go with something like: "Bigfish Center, Piper 12345, request IFR
clearance". That's who I wanna talk to, who I am, what I want,
and where I rank on the controller's duty priority (he's not already
working me IFR). I'm skipping where I am, what altitude, and where
I'm going; I'll provide all that when he gets back to me.

This is basically the same procedure as when you file on the ground
with FSS, depart from a non-towered airport VFR and request your
IFR clearance once airborne.

Practically speaking, if we have filed a VFR flight plan and are
receiving flight following from ATC, when we've requested an IFR
clearance the conversation has gone something like this: "Bigfish
Center, Piper 1234, request IFR clearance to Podunk" "Piper 1234,
do you have a VFR flight plan on file?" "Affirmative, Piper 1234"
"Piper 1234, you are cleared from present position to Podunk
via (route), climb and maintain X thousand". The skinny is, when
I'm receiving ff from center, I'm already in the ATC computer
system with much of the info the controller needs. He wants to
know if the rest of my info (needed for SAR purposes) is in the
FSS system. I tell him it is, he types whatever he needs to switch
me to a hard IFR altitude and an IFR flight plan, and we're good
to go.

Important: note that if you have a VFR flight plan open and request
IFR, *you still have a VFR flight plan open* and must close it with
FSS (either request of ATC to change freq to FSS, or close it on
the ground).

Personal anecdote: we've gotten "dropped" from the system twice
while flying IFR. Both times, we had requested a pop-up clearance
while receiving ff from the *previous* ATC facility. At a hunch,
something didn't get changed correctly. So beware...be prepared
to stuff yourself back into the system if need be.

Another opinion: it is the view of my very experienced CFI that
if the weather is deteriorating enough to request an IFR clearance,
safety is best served by landing, getting a thorough briefing,
filing, and taking off again, especially if you are single-pilot.
A point worth considering IMHO.


Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC.


I've never had it take 1/2 hr to receive a clearance airborne (but
for that matter, I've seldom had it take that long to receive a
clearance on the ground). Sometimes you need to negotiate. For
example if you're below radar coverage, you can request a clearance
to some nearby navaid, in order to be able to climb and get radar
identified without ATC having to work a large block of airspace under
non-radar rules.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me?


I'm not sure what you mean by cumulus build-up, but if t-storms are
a possibility, personally I really want to remain VFR. Especially if
building cumulus weren't in the forcast enough for me to plan and
file IFR on the ground, I want a very good picture of what's going
on ahead of me before I turn myself over to ATC to get vectored around
in the clouds. Maybe it's just me, but when we're flying along in a
cloud, peaceful and happy with the wx briefing we received, nothing
gets my attention (and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand
up) like hearing other planes on freq. requesting to divert or
other indications of convective weather.

Do I file with FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center?


File with FSS but don't wait to contact Center. If you wait, you
may be in different airspace and they won't have access to your
flightplan.

Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?


You CAN file directly with Center, but if they're busy, it's a
PITA for them. If you're already "in the system" getting ff, and
your SAR info is already on file, it's much easier for them and
they may take you directly.

HTH,
Sydney
  #6  
Old May 20th 04, 10:02 AM
Jeff
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Since I live where the sun always shines, I very seldom pick up my IFR
clearance on the ground. If I think I may have instrument weather I file
a composite flight plan with FSS prior to taking off. I always do this
when going to southern california, then when I get to the point where I
think I will need it, I call LA center and tell them I have one on file
and would like pick it up.

the couple of times where I had no IFR flight plan on file, I asked the
controller if he wanted me to file it with FSS or if he could fix me up, I
only do this when the radio is not busy, LA center has never had a problem
with this, some places might tho. I have also called FSS in the air and
filed with them then got back on with center and picked up the clearance
within seconds of filing.
Basically for me the situation dictates the method used. I always fly VFR
with flight following, when I am ready to get my clearance or if I need
to file, I tell center I need to switch over to fligh****ch to file a IFR
flight plan, sometimes they will fix me up, other times say ok, report
back when done. when I report back, they already know who and where I am,
no need for fixes or anytrhing else.

It just varies with the controller and how busy they are. the only times I
run into problem is in the phoenix area. So far every other place has been
great, especially SoCal, those guys/girls are very good at what they do.


Stimbo wrote:

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ


  #8  
Old May 20th 04, 01:03 PM
Maule Driver
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"Nathan Young" wrote in message
When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.

Seems like there has to be a better way.

You don't use a departure airport as I recall. You are filing from some
point you haven't quite reached yet (or are holding at) and your
desitination. The next VOR is usually the best choice


  #9  
Old May 20th 04, 02:36 PM
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Stimbo wrote:

What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.


If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning. If you
have, then a composite flight plan works quite well.

  #10  
Old May 20th 04, 03:40 PM
Peter R.
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) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.


I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?

IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.

Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.

--
Peter










 




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