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#51
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Mxsmanic IS A MORON writes:
Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt - no you're not - it's a game. Would you like to try again? Trying again would make no difference. Believe what you will. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#52
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Jay Honeck writes:
Yes, but with far more resistance. Because the resistance is so light, over-controlling is the norm rather than the exception. This is true with newbies as well as experienced pilots, so it's not just a personal preference on my part. Do the CH pedals have adjustable resistance? The Saitek pedals do. The Saitek also has a vaguely noticeable "neutral" position, which is handy although it apparently is not realistic (from what I understand, there is no distinct neutral to rudder pedals in most real-life aircraft). Another problem is that the CH pedals actually "slide" back and forth, rather than going "into" anything. This is a subtle but quite different feel. I should think that it would be small enough to not be too important. The feel of the controls in real-life aircraft can vary just as much, particularly from one type of aircraft to another. And in some large aircraft, the feedback is purely computer-generated, just like that of a PC simulator. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#53
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
On Feb 28, 9:18 pm, "Tony" wrote:
The deal is this: I wanted to fly a loop in my M20J for a long time, but it's hard to get around the 30 degree pitch limitation certifications and do a loop. isn't it? MSFS2004 offers an M20M Bravo! And Comp USA is selling that program for less than $20. So the four disks came in a couple of days ago, and got loaded into my laptop. Problem 1: no number pad for pitch and bank. I messed around with the C172 model and found the up down, left and right arrows did all of that, although I did not locate a key for return to neutral. OK, so I played student pilot and F3ed full throttle in a 172, figured out how to take off and land. TT maybe 15 minutes, and not an enriching experience. Loaded in the M20M Bravo. This beast gets yanked around the sky with a IO 540, my 201 does it with a IO 360. Lots more fuel usage, and a lot more airplane than I can afford in RL. Never the less, I called up KBED RR 29, and there I was, at the controls, position and hold! Neat. No checklist at hand, so I did the best I could with cowl flaps, wing flaps, trim, fuel pump, and the like, so it looked like this airplane just might fly. Hold down F3, RPMs came up nicely, and nothing happened! Message flashed -- parking brake is set, press . to release. What frigging pilot pulls onto the active and sets the parking brake? OK, I put a period to the program, and started to roll, feet twitching because with an IO 540 this thing should want to turn really badly -- in the M20J I used rudder mostly to keep it on centerline during the early part of the takeoff roll, figured my little left and right arrows would have to do the job here. The Bravo tracked straight down the centerline without any help from me! This is supposed to be an accurate simulation, with no P effects? Gimme a break. OK, I down arrowed at 70 kts -- this takes a lot more rotation (read that as down arrow) than did the 172, I don't think I broke free until about 90, way too fast! Set up a straight ahead climb right out the 11 localizer, my memory claimed the student practice area was a bit to the north of the 11 29 extended centerline. Is there anything more boring than watching a simulated climb to 7000 feet? Like watching grass grow. My plan was to reach altitude, dive the thing down at 45 degrees, let the speed climb to top of the green, then hold down the down arrow, and when I was at the top of the loop close the throttle, pray a little, and try to recover smoothly at the bottom. Guys who have flown aerobatics know the way you do them is look at the horizon to the side. I worried about that a little, since the side image was going to be in front of me, but it turned out to be a non issue. I couldn't figure out how to get that side view. The hell with it. I pushed over, and the speed went up really fast! Mooneys are aerodynamicly clean GA airplanes. I downarrowed (which means yoke in my lap, I think) and watched the windscreen view change from ground to sky, saw the AH tumble, saw the ground in the top half of the windscreen, closed the throttle, and somewhere near the bottom went forward stick. It was NOT pretty. I didn't have that side view I wanted. I still don't know how at one point I wound up in a 60 degree bank! Never the less, I got back to straight and level, and remember having started the dive from 7000 feet was more than a little suprised to find the airplane was at a simulated altitude of 5500. The guy who showed me some things in a 150 Aerobat would have been ashamed of me. Never the less, I did a loop. About then the phone rang, and a friend suggested I meet with him and a few others for lunch. That sounded good. The sim was paused 30 miles or so from BED, After I got back to my home office there were some other matters that needed attention and computer memory. Exit sim That's it. It was as fulfilling an experience for me as eating cotton candy -- there just wasn't much there. It simply didn't provide the kinds of feedback I'd want, and I'm not going to buy a yoke with force feedback and rudder peddles (sims who use a joystick instead of a yoke in airplanes that come with yokes are another step removed from at least what is my reality. For those of you who get pleasure from the MSFS, more power to you. It did not work for me. There is a possiblity my mind has been poisoned to the sim experience, but probably not, I hoped it might be fun ro do on late nights. Oh well, it was a $20 experiment. The good news is, that was cheap. Most of my 'experiments' cost a lot more than that. Want to know how to burn some VC's couple million in a startup venture? Talk to me! MS2004 'out of the box' is very poor and has its limitations. Its basically a base tool for a huge userbase. The huge amount of add-ons certainly improve it. The default planes included are basically crap compared to good quality 'payware' planes which have better flight dynamics and far superior cockpits and controls. Scenery, sky and real-time updateable weather add to the sim as well if purchased. I guess by your experience you were using a keyboard which is a big big no no for any enjoyment in FS. The way the keyboard controls are initially programmed creates a 'lag' then accelerates the control input adding a serious sense of unrealism. Joystick or even yoke controls with separate throttle controls help. Another great hardware add-on is TrackIR4Pro which allows all head/body movements to be accurately and smoothly replicated on screen in the virtual cockpit. You either like it or not and for some less fortunate to fly IRL its the best we can get ;-) Ibby |
#54
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Boy, I'm having a real clarity issue lately. Must be this weather...
IF you were IFR rated, you could do this newsgroup on instruments. Jose -- Humans are pack animals. Above all things, they have a deep need to follow something, be it a leader, a creed, or a mob. Whosoever fully understands this holds the world in his hands. for Email, make the obvious change in the address. |
#55
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
I also was an Air Force pilot and NASA astronaut instructor. In both of
these jobs I got lots of time in full blown simulators complete with motion. I found them to be boring compaired to real flight. ---snip--- You, sir, are truly a master of understatement! My RL esperience was in entry level aircraft and I had no experience in PC based sims, but did happen to get a few minutes in a million dollar plus true-maotion sim. Even by that comparison, I can only think of sims as teaching and demonstration tools--for which they are very useful. Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching and demonstration concept. Peter |
#56
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote: I think he meant he can get in atlas any time. Yep. Boy, I'm having a real clarity issue lately. Must be this weather... nah, I'm getting old and slow, (-{ -- Bob Noel Looking for a sig the lawyers will hate |
#57
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides
could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching and demonstration concept. Incorrect. My suggestion goes straight to the "drink beer and enjoy yourself" concept... Yet another beauty of flying the Kiwi... ;-) -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993 www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#58
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
And that, without a doubt, is one place where a sim rl. It also
makes it easy for the pilot who has had a few beers to remember what to press when he has to, ah, p. On Mar 2, 9:45 pm, "Jay Honeck" wrote: Admittedly, a contest type demonstration, such as Jay apparently provides could be part of an enjoyable evening. But that goes back to the teaching and demonstration concept. Incorrect. My suggestion goes straight to the "drink beer and enjoy yourself" concept... Yet another beauty of flying the Kiwi... ;-) -- Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com "Your Aviation Destination" |
#59
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Mxsmanic wrote in
: writes: Yes, I use MSFS as an occasional substitute for my Cherokee 180 when I can't fly for real. I use the default Cessna 172, it's not bad, except that no matter how I adjust the sensitivity settings, the rudder is WAY too sensitive compared to my Cherokee or 172s that I've flown. Is there anything else to try? There is at least one freeware add-on for FS 2004 that simulates a Cherokee 180F, and at least one payware add-on (Carenado). I don't know much about them, but you might want to try them if they match your real-life aircraft. No sim simulates a real life aircraft accuratley and I've been in ones considerably better than your little desktop dell box, fjukkkwit bertie |
#60
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A real life pilot's first sim experience
Mxsmanic wrote in
: MXSMANIC lives in a dream world writes: It's probably pretty good at simulating what you believe real flight may be. Lots of pilots agree with me. Heck, pilots designed it. You adamantly refuse to listen when real pilots tell you it is deficient, yet you whole-heartedly agree when they say it's good. I've done neither. You are a liar. or delusional. Or both. Bertie |
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