Programme about Amiens Prison Raid

Good day, good people!

I think I already know the answer to this question, but would welcome
comment. I have just viewed a video I took of a TV programme about the
raid on Amiens prison by Mosquitos in Feb 1944. The presenter stated
that the Mosquitos had to drop their bombs at no more than one hundred
and twenty-five miles per hour because 'any faster and they would have
fragmented against the prison wall instead of exploding properly'.

I think that the presenter (an ex-major, so may not have clocked it) was
fed a dud 'fact' from the script writer, but I can't think of where any
such erroneous limit could have originated.

Because...

1. I have never heard of a velocity limit on aerial bombs. Most bombs
in WWII were dropped from a substantial height, and most industrial
targets were made of hard stuff like concrete. Terminal velocity of a
GP HE bomb? Suspect rather high...

2. The safety airspeed for a Mosquito carrying bombs was comfortably
above 125 mph.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that someone believed
that, above a certain airspeed, the bombs (almost certainly using
delayed action fuses) might have passed straight through the wall -
expending their explosion in the courtyard, rather than demolishing the
wall. But if that was the case I can only think that the airspeed limit
would have been much higher because of the Mossie safety airspeed.

So, can anyone who knows anything about the Amiens prison raid comment
as to what might be the origins for such a garbled portion of the
script? Was there any limit of any sort associated with the raid that
might have been so badly misinterpreted?

Many thanks.

Cheers,

Dave

--
Dave Eadsforth

"Dave Eadsforth" wrote in message
...

Good day, good people!

I think I already know the answer to this question, but would welcome
comment. I have just viewed a video I took of a TV programme about the
raid on Amiens prison by Mosquitos in Feb 1944. The presenter stated
that the Mosquitos had to drop their bombs at no more than one hundred
and twenty-five miles per hour because 'any faster and they would have
fragmented against the prison wall instead of exploding properly'.

I think that the presenter (an ex-major, so may not have clocked it) was
fed a dud 'fact' from the script writer, but I can't think of where any
such erroneous limit could have originated.

Because...

1. I have never heard of a velocity limit on aerial bombs. Most bombs
in WWII were dropped from a substantial height, and most industrial
targets were made of hard stuff like concrete. Terminal velocity of a
GP HE bomb? Suspect rather high...

2. The safety airspeed for a Mosquito carrying bombs was comfortably
above 125 mph.

The only possible explanation I can think of is that someone believed
that, above a certain airspeed, the bombs (almost certainly using
delayed action fuses) might have passed straight through the wall -
expending their explosion in the courtyard, rather than demolishing the
wall. But if that was the case I can only think that the airspeed limit
would have been much higher because of the Mossie safety airspeed.

So, can anyone who knows anything about the Amiens prison raid comment
as to what might be the origins for such a garbled portion of the
script? Was there any limit of any sort associated with the raid that
might have been so badly misinterpreted?

Many thanks.


There's a copy of the signal sent by 2 group with the
orders for the rain on line at

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/raids/ameins.html

This doesnt seem to give any basis for the claimed
limit.

Keith

I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and read most of
the available works about them - first I have heard this. One hundred knots
over the target would have been absolute suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree" that this
was a fact. :\

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

An LZ is a place you want to land, not stay.

test

--

-Gord.

test


C-. You forgot to answer the back page of questions.

nt (Krztalizer) wrote:


test


C-. You forgot to answer the back page of questions.

Yeh I know Gordon, I just selected Keith's post at random trying
to help Ed M. with a problem down-thread. Don't know a bunch
about bombs.

--

-Gord.

"Emmanuel Gustin" wrote in message
...
"Dave Eadsforth" wrote in message
...

1. I have never heard of a velocity limit on aerial bombs.

According to McBean & Hogden in "Bombs Away", the bombs
used in the Amiens prison raid were 500lb MC bombs, fitted
with 11 second delay fuses; dropped at very low level to skip
over the ground and hit the prison walls. The walls were
reportedly about 1m thick, hence the bombs would not easily
go through them. I suppose fairly long delays were used to
protect the bombers from the blast of their own bombs.

It is not impossible that the need to "skip" the bombs over
the ground imposed flying speed restrictions, as one would
not want the bombs to break up before hitting the target.
Another basic concern on such attacks was leaving enough
time for the fuse to arm.


According to the signal sent from 2 group the bomb load
and fusing to be used was:

2 x 500lb M C Mk.IV fused T.D. 11 secs.
2 x 500lb S A P fused T.D. 11 secs.

Keith

nt (Krztalizer) wrote in message ...
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and read most of
the available works about them - first I have heard this. One hundred knots
over the target would have been absolute suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree" that this
was a fact. :\


A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?

Subject: Programme about Amiens Prison Raid
From: (Eunometic)
Date: 4/26/04 7:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time
Message-id:

(Krztalizer) wrote in message
...
I have tracked down and interviewed ~2 dozen Mosquito airmen and read most
of
the available works about them - first I have heard this. One hundred
knots
over the target would have been absolute suicide.

TV strikes again; within a couple of years, folks will all "agree" that
this
was a fact. :\


A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?


The British A-2 bombsight.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

A dozen agincourt longbowmen with fire arrows could have brought down
the wooden wonder at that speed.

How exactly did they aim the bombs?


At a hundred knots, I assume you open a window and casually drop em over the
side.

G