G1000 vs Steam guages initial thoughts...

Robert M. Gary wrote:

Sam Spade wrote:

I've never used TIS, but I heard before what you state. Problem is the
limited coverage and I understand the feds can turn it off if the need
arises. They can't fiddle with TCAS.


They can also turn of GPS. The Europeans are very concerned about this.

-Robert


But, they have turned off TIS whereas they haven' turned off GPS. The
former is low-level tactical stuff at the air traffic facility level;
the latter is at the presidential and joint chiefs staff level.

The Europeans have been known to cry about falling sky on more than one
occasion. Their "concerns" about GPS defy logic for those involved in
aviation planning and system risk assessment.

But when it all goes TU, a heading and time to find by DR,
the place within fuel endurance that is VFR, and being
prepared to just hold an altitude and heading, and have an
idea of where you are when you break out an hour or two
later at 8,000 feet 300 miles from you last knew your
position and then find an airport.
I would expect ATC to notice the transponder failed and try
to call, and after no response, track raw returns and clear
everything out of your path. I would expect 2 F-16s to
joint up and lead the way to someplace or shoot my ass down
if I was headed toward a major target, er city.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Mt point is that the G1000 is easy that the pilot WILL
| become totally dependent on the nav display for
situational
| awareness. If it fails, the pilot will not have any
idea on
| how or where to go. Backup battery is fine, but in many
| areas there isn't an airport of any king within 30
minutes,
| and an IFR approach will be difficult. I'm not worried
| about the control being lost, I'm worried about the
pilot
| being lost.
|
| But again, I think you would notice both screens going
blank. Teaching
| students to look for errors in displayed pitch is probably
not useful
| (or probable).
|
| An IFR approach with a totally dead G1000 isn't possible
under any
| situation. You have no VORs, no GPSs, and only can talk on
121.5. You
| just can't shoot an approach with the backup A/S,
altimeter, and
| attitude indicator.
|
| The chance of a total failure of the G1000 is much less
than the chance
| that my Mooney loses its only electrical bus and my
handheld GPS fails
| at the same time.
|
| All that being said, I really don't see a situation where
a student
| becomes dis-engaged from the system. Flying the G1000
system can be
| demanding. Flying an ILS in my old Mooney is (in many
ways) much easier
| than programming the approach sequence in the G1000. The
G1000 may be
| safer but the Mooney does not require as much pilot
attention.
|
| -Robert
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote:
I would expect 2 F-16s to joint up

Not within 50 feet of the aircraft or for 8 hours before engine start.

You can see 50 feet in a formation, even in a cloud.


"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
| I would expect 2 F-16s to joint up
|
| Not within 50 feet of the aircraft or for 8 hours before
engine start.

That's not what Roy meant.
He must know more about "jointing up" than we senior citizens. :-)

My late brother-in-law said a SAC rule was:
"No smoking within 24 hours of flying, and
No drinking within 50 feet of an airplane."

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message news:WS5Kg.6624$SZ3.5252@dukeread04...
You can see 50 feet in a formation, even in a cloud.


"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
| I would expect 2 F-16s to joint up
|
| Not within 50 feet of the aircraft or for 8 hours before
engine start.

It is hard to proofread your own work. I didn't see the
typo, joint instead of join. Missed his humor, too.


"John R. Copeland" wrote in
message news That's not what Roy meant.
He must know more about "jointing up" than we senior
citizens. :-)

My late brother-in-law said a SAC rule was:
"No smoking within 24 hours of flying, and
No drinking within 50 feet of an airplane."

"Jim Macklin" wrote
in message news:WS5Kg.6624$SZ3.5252@dukeread04...
You can see 50 feet in a formation, even in a cloud.


"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
| I would expect 2 F-16s to joint up
|
| Not within 50 feet of the aircraft or for 8 hours before
engine start.

Jim Macklin wrote:
But when it all goes TU, a heading and time to find by DR,
the place within fuel endurance that is VFR, and being
prepared to just hold an altitude and heading, and have an
idea of where you are when you break out an hour or two
later at 8,000 feet 300 miles from you last knew your
position and then find an airport.

That's just basic IFR training. The same thing can happen in a steam
gauge airplane. The only difference is that G1000 has more backups. If
you lose your single alternator in a Bonanza and you're IMC for an hour
or so, short of a handheld, you're in the same situation.
However, the original discussion was about second guessing the accuracy
of the information. That is critical in steam gauges since they often
fail in strange ways (like my night IMC "tilted but functional AI").
However, its MUCH less likely in the G1000. In the G1000 you'll either
get red X's or, worse case, blank screen, but not slightly off data.

-Robert

You're missing the point, the G1000 displays some much
information in picture form, the pilot WILL almost certainly
come to rely on the system to work and stop doing that
"basic IFR" thinking. Sort of like pilots forget to check
the runway heading. With steam gauges, the pilot is forced
to THINK about the navigation situation, with the G1000
thinking is done by the machine.



"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
oups.com...
|
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| But when it all goes TU, a heading and time to find by
DR,
| the place within fuel endurance that is VFR, and being
| prepared to just hold an altitude and heading, and have
an
| idea of where you are when you break out an hour or two
| later at 8,000 feet 300 miles from you last knew your
| position and then find an airport.
|
| That's just basic IFR training. The same thing can happen
in a steam
| gauge airplane. The only difference is that G1000 has more
backups. If
| you lose your single alternator in a Bonanza and you're
IMC for an hour
| or so, short of a handheld, you're in the same situation.
| However, the original discussion was about second guessing
the accuracy
| of the information. That is critical in steam gauges since
they often
| fail in strange ways (like my night IMC "tilted but
functional AI").
| However, its MUCH less likely in the G1000. In the G1000
you'll either
| get red X's or, worse case, blank screen, but not slightly
off data.
|
| -Robert
|

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 22:04:22 -0700, wrote:

I have just finished two concurent aircraft learning programs

1)Getting my instrument currency back.
doing some paractice, taking a IPC.
All done in a round dial 172.

snip

I'd been doing quite well at mastering the G1000, but putting the
hood on at 700 ft in the G1000 was really hard after flying my IPC
yesterday in a round dial 172.

Holding altitude is hard the Altitude bug is too small and the rate of
climb indicator is such a different presentaion tha tI find it hard to
track.

It depends on the person to some extent. I find the G-1000 very easy
to interpret even after all the years on the mechanical gages. What I
find difficult is when I have to switch functions, or
change/insert/delete way points. Where I need the time is punching
switches, meaning when to push which switch to get where I want to be.
The first thing to learn is how to get back to the basic screens. Then
work from there.


I t feels like transitioning back and froth from G1000 to round dials
is going to be hard.

Again it depends on the individual, how much you fly on each and how
often you change back and forth. If you change a lot is should soon
become a relatively easy transition.


When one uses the autopilot in the G1000 182, everything is easier,
one has lots of time to think and the situational awareness is
awesome.

I already have a good autopilot that couples to Nav 1 & 2, the DG, and
has altitude hold. I love it. However I'd dearly love to replace all
of that *stuff* with the dual Garmin set up. Unfortunately that would
run close to the actual value of the Deb. I think they figure to
install and check out the whole works in an older plane is around 75
to 80 grand.


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:_bYJg.6559$SZ3.6391@dukeread04...
You'd need ARNIC or remote AI and HSI, either mechanical or
electronic, that appears to be a cabin class piece of
equipment.

(Is that two sentences there?)

Not at all. Compare this AHRS to the ones that do, in fact, typically go
into cabin class/turbine stuff.


"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
...
| The solid state gyros are the best thing IMHO, the
weakness
| in the small GA airplanes is the poor sensitivity and
| accuracy of the gyros and the small size of the
displays.
|
| Something like this might be more better!
| http://www.xbow.com/Products/product...ls.aspx?sid=59
|
| Too quick on the SEND button
|
| I was wondering if these could replace the mechanical
gyros even if you're
| still running steam gauges?